Roxanne Coady [00:00:00] If any of us as booksellers find a book that resonates with us, the opportunity to introduce it to a lot of people... You know, that's why we're booksellers. You know, that's pretty damn satisfying to be doing that.

Anne Bogel [00:00:23] Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next?

[00:00:41] We've got a great episode for you today. But first, I want to fill you in a little bit about what's happening in our world here at What Should I Read Next? and Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ.

Here in mid-April, we are in the thick of Summer Reading Guide preparation for our 12th annual guide, which I can't wait to share with you on May 18th. It's going to be a 50-book strong, chock full of summer reading goodness made with love in the experience of all these years of guide-making and responsibility and eyes that are sometimes honestly pretty tired from all the reading. My font on my Kindle keeps getting bigger and bigger.

[00:01:15] But this year marks a departure from previous years and I want to update you on what is changing and walk you through the thought process behind those changes while it's still April. I shared a longer video post on Modern Mrs. Darcy on April 12th that goes into more detail, so please pop over there if you would like to hear more than I'm sharing here on the podcast. But I am sharing the highlights here.

The long and the short of it is this. I love our annual summer reading tradition. And if it is going to remain a tradition, we need to make some changes to reflect the current landscape of our business and the reality of what it takes now to make this guide the way we make it. Good things take time and they are costly to make and only getting more so. That's in terms of attention, and energy, resources and plain old cash.

What that means is this year, for the first time, our Summer Reading Guide is not free. For 2023, the Summer Reading Guide is an included perk for our community members and the Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club and What Should I Read Next? Patreon communities, and that will include Unboxing access. If you are a current member or if you join us any time this season, you won't pay anything extra. The guide and Unboxing are included in your membership.

Again, the guide is coming out on May 18th and will host two Unboxing parties on that same day at 1 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. Eastern time. You do not need to attend live. We record these, you can watch them afterwards at your leisure as many times as you want.

[00:02:42] We are also offering readers the option to purchase the guide and Unboxing a la carte. If you don't have the time or inclination to join the community, that option is made for you.

That means there are three ways to get the 2023 Summer Reading Guide and Unboxing access. Purchase the guide and Unboxing a la carte, support the What Should I Read Next? Patreon, or join the Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club. We hope you'll choose the option that's right for you.

And we want you to know we frequently get questions about the difference between Book Club and Patreon. We will share a thorough explainer answering all your FAQs along with our summer lineups for each space in the coming weeks.

Please note that this decision was not made lightly. It is an honor to be part of your reading lives and we don't take that lightly. The guide means a lot to us. It means a lot to me. It's a huge part of our history here at Modern Mrs. Darcy and What Should I Read Next?.

And while I believe this is a good and necessary change, it is a change. And we want it to be honest and forthright about everything that went into this decision. I go into lots more detail in my video. Visit. Modernmrsdarcy.com to watch.

[00:03:45] If you are not able or do not wish to join one of our member communities or purchase the guide separately, please know that we will keep with our longstanding tradition of sharing our minimalist Summer Reading Guide on the blog, and I will be talking about a ton of summer reading titles here on What Should I Read Next? all summer Long.

In fact, I've already mentioned a few Summer Reading Guide titles in discussions with guests in our winter and spring episodes. I'm wondering if you have any guesses right now. We will be sharing a lot more about the actual guide in the coming weeks. But right now we wanted to let you know about what will be different this year. Thank you for listening and for reading. We are so glad you're here. And we're so excited about what we have in store for this summer.

[00:04:24] And now for today's episode. Back at the end of February, we invited you into three independent bookstores through my conversations with their owners and booksellers in Episode 369 called State of the Bookstore. Today, I'm delighted to share even more fascinating insights and fabulous recommendations from booksellers we love. These are some of my favorite people, and I can't wait for you to listen in.

First, we're popping over to the West Coast to catch up with Andrea Griffith, owner of Browsers Bookshop in Olympia, Washington. Next, we're visiting Fabled Bookshop in Waco, Texas, to talk with owner Alison Frenzel and book buyer Elizabeth Barnhill. And then we have Roxanne Coady, owner of RJ Julia Booksellers in Madison, Connecticut.

We have hosted all these booksellers on the show for wonderful conversations in the past. All those links are in our show notes in your podcast player or at whatshouldireadnext.com. We highly recommend listening to those episodes next.

I'm so excited to share these new conversations with all of you today. We talk about what's been happening in their stores since we last spoke, the books they can't stop recommending, and the ways they are building bookish communities, one reader at a time. Let's get to it.

[00:05:35] Andrea, welcome back to the show.

Andrea Griffith [00:05:37] Thank you so much for having me.

Anne Bogel [00:05:39] Oh, the pleasure is mine. I'm so excited to reconnect. I believe that you were the very first bookseller I talked to on What Should I Read Next? In June 2016. I hope everyone goes back and listen to that episode. It's so fun, especially knowing where Browsers Bookshop is today. But would you give us the recap? What was the Browsers' situation in 2016?

Andrea Griffith [00:06:02] Well, I'd only owned the store for like a year and a half, I think, when I talked to you. Not even two years. Now it's been eight and a half years, and so a lot has changed. When I bought the store, it was a completely used bookstore in the heart of Olympia downtown.

And in the full eight years, we are mostly an independent bookstore, we still have maybe 5% to 10% used books because we're a college town and we like our used book program but we are a fully independent bookstore. We're embraced by our community. We do a lot of events with schools. It's just night and day. I feel like we were striving to be where we were when I talked to you in 2016 and we're kind of there, and it feels really good.

Anne Bogel [00:06:52] The difference that seven years makes. I remember when we talked that at the time your new book percentage wasn't more than 30. It might have been 20 and you had a goal to hit a certain percentage by a certain time. By the time I got to visit the store in October 2018, which was a magical trip, you were kind enough to host me for I'd Rather Be Reading, it was such a joy to visit in person.

I just loved your setting in downtown Olympia. Like the Capitol was just a few blocks away. You had these great shops and eateries right nearby. Your staff told me exactly and you told me exactly where to go to get lunch and dessert. And I just loved it. And seeing the stories then was amazing.

[00:07:29] And you mentioned the used books. You told me something probably off the cuff—you probably don't even remember—when I was there in 2018 that I still think about all the time. And that's how many books, when they're first released, they just fly out the door. But you can kind of gauge whether a book has staying power by if it walks right back in when readers read it, and they don't feel like they need to keep it on their shelves, so they bring it back to you to pass on to another reader as a used book.

I think I overheard a reader ask for Louise Penny and used, and you commented to me like, "She doesn't come back." Like readers keep those books. But there were a couple big bestsellers in fall 2018 that you said, "Those flew out the door, like people bought those and then they walked right back in." Do you even remember that conversation?

Andrea Griffith [00:08:14] I don't. I don't. The thing is, is it's kind of true. With Louise Penny, that's still kind of true. We don't see them used very often. It's a book that people cherish, a series that people cherish, and then they hand them to their friends rather than bring them back for store credit. There's something about certain books that just don't come in used very often. And that's still true with Louise Penny, even though we're on - what? Book 19 or 18 in the series.

Anne Bogel [00:08:44] There's a lot of them now.

Andrea Griffith [00:08:45] I know.

Anne Bogel [00:08:46] I'm wondering if that experience very hands-on, like not only do you see what appeals to your readers in the store and hear what they ask for and what they're seeking out and what you special order and what they gravitate towards on the shelves, but also seeing the books that they are willing to part with when they come back in. I wonder if that eight-and-a-half years of anecdotal or maybe very real concrete Excel spreadsheet data impacts how you think about the business and how you think about people's reading tastes, and if it changes how you think about their reading life, really.

Andrea Griffith [00:09:15] Yes. I mean, it is interesting data. We do limit what we bring in used to what we've sold just as a marker to teach people how to buy used books. That seems to work really well for our store. It's fun to think of a book having a cycle outside of a brand new hardcover book and it comes back in hardcover again, maybe used. But it is interesting to see the cycle.

It's a smaller part of our business now, but I think it's a beloved part. I like that people can come in and find what they're looking for and then truly a browsing experience where you never know. There's more serendipity with the used books, I feel like, because you never know what will be there. You know that we'll have Spare on our shelf by Prince Harry but you may not know that a book that came out six months ago that we just got in and that's on our new used arrival. That part is so magical. I love that part of it. You just never know. And so you have to come in.

Anne Bogel [00:10:26] Serendipity in the reading life. I love the way you put that. Andrea, I'm so glad I got to visit the store. And I have to tell you, if you were my local bookstore, I'm something like 3,000 miles away, but if you are my local, I would be at that Cookbook Club every time you had it. You all do amazing events. You have this beautiful space. Since I don't anticipate finding myself in Olympia on a Thursday night anytime soon, would you humor me and paint a picture of what Cookbook Club is like?

Andrea Griffith [00:10:53] Yes, I do this with my friend Kelly. We do the Cookbook Club quarterly, so four times a year. We pick a cookbook and open up registration for it, and it fills up within a couple of hours. We limit it to 14 guests. Everyone brings the recipes out of the cookbook that we're cooking out of.

And on the night of the cookbook club, people bring the most amazing food upstairs to our store and we have a table set and it's beautiful. We have flowers from a local flower shop. We make it really, really nice. We like candles. Even in a bookstore, we like candles. I'm hoping the fire marshal doesn't listen to this.

But it's just a beautiful setting. And we have a conversation about food, about the cookbook itself. And it feels warm. It feels like what I thought being an adult would be every time. But it turns out you have to kind of create what you think adulthood will be. It's just different kinds of people, different age ranges. It's just one of the best things the store does.

And right now we're in this point where, you know, we can only fit 14 people around this table. The demand is greater than what we can obviously do, and we really have to keep it four times a year. It's a lot of work. So we're getting to the point where we're encouraging groups of people to create their own cookbook club in their own homes if you don't get into the Browsers' Cookbook Club. So it's a fun place to be.

Anne Bogel [00:12:31] It sounds amazing. That's wonderful in some ways to have the problem of more readers than space, but it's still very much is a problem.

Andrea Griffith [00:12:40] It is a problem, but also, I think, in a way, it's a place to be creative. My friend Kelly and I are talking about creating maybe a toolkit of how to do a cookbook club of your own. And you can pick the cookbook that we are using that season or you can pick a different one and have a group of your friends get together or host something in your neighborhood or get all the teachers in your school together. So it is a problem, but it also could be looked at as fostering gatherings outside of the store at the same time.

Anne Bogel [00:13:17] I love that. Andrea, you've mentioned that COVID was really a watershed moment for Browsers. Oh, if that long period can be called a moment. And that's not something that's unique to small businesses. But like so many bookstores, Browsers has come out of that so well. Would you tell me a little bit about what that experience in the aftermath has been like for you, continues to be like for you?

Andrea Griffith [00:13:39] It was obviously very tough and disorienting for sure. But looking back, I can see we made a series of really great decisions. We obviously didn't have the store open for browsing, but we continued to mail books to people. I wish I would have kept better data on this, but we were so overwhelmed in like just growing day to day that I did not keep track.

But we did several thousand home deliveries within a five-mile radius of the store. And because libraries weren't open, Amazon wasn't selling books the way that they usually do and we saw a need and we filled it, it was a lot of work. But first of all, I saw neighborhoods I didn't even know were in my town, which was really, really fun. And we were like book fairies. It was very fun.

So the community goodwill that we established from that has just made the business stronger Post-COVID. I don't want to be Pollyanna-ish about how difficult it was, but at the same time, we've come out a lot stronger. And I'm really pleased with the place that Browsers hold in our community right now.

Anne Bogel [00:14:57] Can you say more about that, about Browsers' place in the Olympia landscape?

Andrea Griffith [00:15:01] I think one of Browser's strengths is we really do know our community and our store reflects our community. And it feels like a place where neighbors are running into one another, that kids see their teachers buying books for their classroom. It feels like a meeting up place.

Our room upstairs we still let community groups meet. I mean, there was a group of people in there last night when I was leaving talking about short stories. So Browsers does feel like a community hub in a way that when you came to the store I was still just dreaming about. And it feels like it's happening.

After going through COVID, I don't think we'll ever take for granted the ability to gather and talk about something important or even something not important. I don't think we'll ever take that for granted in the same way. It feels like magic every day that we get to do the work that we're doing.

Anne Bogel [00:16:04] Would you tell me about some bestsellers or just popular books that are very unique to Browsers in your greater area?

Andrea Griffith [00:16:14] Surprisingly, and maybe not surprisingly, the book that we just cannot stop selling is a University Press book, which is, I think, kind of interesting. University Press books are usually a little more expensive. They're not as beautiful of an object often. But it's called Haboo: Native American Stories from Puget Sound by Vi Hilbert. That is one of our bestselling books of the last year, and we sell stacks of it. It's 33 stories, Native American stories that take place in the Salish Sea area where Browsers is right at. It's just a beautiful little book that just has amazing staying power.

Anne Bogel [00:17:00] That's incredible.

Andrea Griffith [00:17:01] Yeah.

Anne Bogel [00:17:01] I love how that's something that you would discover at Browsers, not on a bestseller list. Not on the bestseller list anywhere else, that is.

Andrea Griffith [00:17:09] Yes. And it just continues. It doesn't matter where we put it in the store, it just continues to walk out the door and find readers.

This isn't a regional book, but we just can't stop selling The House in the Cerulean Sea. It is one of our bestselling books of all time by T.J. Klune. It just keeps walking out our door. It appeals to my eighth grader, to my father-in-law. You know what I mean? It's just one of those books that I think a lot of people love and cherish. And it just keeps finding readers in our town. It's really fun.

Braiding Sweetgrass continues to be our bestselling book basically of all time at the store. It's just, I think, Pacific Northwest. It's speaking to a lot of what readers are wanting for their lives and viewing the natural world and how you can integrate modern life with ancient wisdom. It just keeps walking out the door.

A couple of others that are really unique to Olympia, we have just kind of a lovely community of children's writers. So if you're familiar with Nikki McClure's work—she's a paper artist—she had two books come out in 2022 and by far two of our bestselling books of the year. People in Olympia love Nikki McClure. And if you are not familiar with her work, definitely Google it. She does all of that with an X-Acto knife and black paper, the colors added digitally later. It's so cool.

The other children's writer that we adore is Karina Lukin. She sometimes illustrates other people's books, but she's authored her own books and illustrated them as well. So she's a beloved figure in our town as well.

Anne Bogel [00:18:59] That's amazing. Andrea, I have gotten some wonderful pics from your newsletter for books that you are reading and loving. What's something you might write about these days that’s special to you?

Andrea Griffith [00:19:09] I am a judge right now for the Washington State Book Awards, so I'm reading a lot of Washington authors, and I'm mostly loving it. So I feel like my reading life is very directed and not up to me. But a few things that I'm loving, I absolutely love Foster by Claire Keegan. I think that is a book that I think you read too and you really liked it.

Anne Bogel [00:19:35] I mean, I did because I read about it in your newsletter.

Andrea Griffith [00:19:38] Oh, really?

Anne Bogel [00:19:39] Yeah. You all sent me my books with a nice handwritten note. And yeah, they arrived in two days.

Andrea Griffith [00:19:43] I think it was Small Things Like These that you ordered from the store, wasn't it?

Anne Bogel [00:19:48] Oh, you said Foster. You're right. I'm thinking of Small Things Like These because that was my introduction to Claire Keegan through you.

Andrea Griffith [00:19:53] Yes. Still on the Claire Keegan train, I loved Foster as well, another very small book that you can read in one sitting that is unforgettable in the world that it creates and the story that it tells.

Thanks to you, though, I listened to your yearly roundup of the books that you loved when your husband was interviewing you. So I picked up Also a Poet by Ada Calhoun. I had read her book about Gen-X women and sleep. I had read that one. But I picked that Also a Poet, and I listened to it and I adored it.

I'm now reading Frank O'Hara's Lunch Poems. It created like a nesting doll. Like, I just keep finding books. And then I read her marriage book, The Wedding Toasts I'll Never Give. So thanks to you, I had my own little rabbit hole moment and it was really fun to follow my curiosity with that.

I really try to keep doing that even though I'm reading seasons ahead. As a bookstore owner, I feel responsible to do that. But it's really nice to follow your curiosity a little bit as well. That keeps the joy of reading alive for me too.

Anne Bogel [00:21:03] Yes, which is obviously good for you personally, but also good for Browsers. On that note, I'm wondering what are some words of encouragement you give to your booksellers to help them grow in the love of their reading lives and also be good at their jobs?

Andrea Griffith [00:21:18] Really interesting. I was just talking to Alex, the store manager, yesterday. We had met with a rep that morning and we were buying summer 2023, and the rep brought a stack of Advance Reading Copies for us. On one hand, that's like candy for a bookstore owner and booksellers, right? Like, we love all of this. But the pressure to read ahead only and to be knowledgeable about what's coming out and maybe a season or a season ahead versus following your curiosity, that pressure as a bookseller is just kind of overwhelming. And he was feeling it and so we were talking through it.

[00:22:06] We're all still in the process of figuring that out. Obviously, I can't pay my booksellers to read when they're not at the store. But we do talk about books all the time. We start our staff meetings out with like what you're reading. So we really do try to foster a love of figuring out what people are reading and sharing in that, or maybe what people will be reading and trying to identify that and then also reading ahead so we can have interesting conversations with readers.

But it is the balance to protect that curiosity that you feel going from one book to another on your own as you follow what's interesting versus what you feel like you should do for the store. It's a challenge, but it's also a really fun challenge, and it's really fun to talk about.

[00:22:53] So we're always talking about it. I don't think I'll ever get bored of talking about these types of things. We all have all these reading challenges that we're doing, and he was saying that this year he's only going to read one book at a time. But then he's figured out ways of cheating on it. And I'm like, The rules exist for you.

And I am planning a summer of rereading and I don't know exactly what that will look like. But it is really fun to have all of these big dreams and hopes and goals around your reading life. It is really fun to work in a place that we all have all these very idiosyncratic rules around things. It just never gets old or boring. I really love it.

Anne Bogel [00:23:38] I love to hear about that. And it sounds like you are in the right line of work, Andrea. Andrea, thanks so much for coming back on to catch up.

Andrea Griffith [00:23:45] It's a pleasure to talk with you.

Anne Bogel [00:23:48] Elizabeth and Alison, y'all have such a history with What Should I Read Next? and I'm so grateful for that. Alison, you first joined me to talk books and the process of opening a bookstore way back in May 2017. I did not even realize it had been that long.

And then I also didn't realize that the last time we aired an episode with both of you on the show was the day that Don't Overthink It came out on March 3rd, 2020. We got to hear about the actual opening of the store then in that episode. At that time you had only been open a little over six months.

And also we got to hear on that episode about how What Should I Read Next? brought you two together, which I don't think I knew until shortly before. And I haven't yet gotten to visit Fabled for myself, which I just can't believe because I was supposed to go in March 2020 and then we postponed till the summer and we all know how it's gone since then. But I'd love to hear from you. Paint a picture of what Fabled is like. Every bookstore has its own personality, tell us about yours.

Alison Frenzel [00:24:44] Anne, when Elizabeth and I talked yesterday, she reminded me the last time that we talked was March 2020 before everything happened. And you were scheduled to come to Fabled in just a few weeks from then. And I remember right before everything shut down that you were one of the first people to cancel something big.

I feel like that marked us as far as understanding what was ahead. And I think right after that, you know, we were in Waco, so Chip and Joanna had the Spring at the Silos and they canceled that. Of course, we all know how the rest of it went. But it's so crazy that that period is just so marked by our conversation with the podcast. And now it's like, I'd like to say we're out of it and we're back. So it's so fun to reconnect.

Since then, we've done a myriad of things as far as lockdown and figuring out how to reopen just as many bookstore and retail owners have done. But as far as Fabled is concerned, we are doing really well.

And when you come to Fabled, our vibe is nostalgia, it's fall in love with reading. We have a huge wooden owl that greets you as soon as you walk in and we name him Aesop. We want to offer the opportunity just to weave in and out of the stacks and find books, have that discoverability factor.

And then our kids section we really try to make magical with a secret entrance, which is a wardrobe. Really anybody who would love to come, we'd love to have you because it's really one of those things you can't explain the experience until you're there.

Anne Bogel [00:26:21] Alison, I learned when we talked last time that one of your official jobs was something like Keeper of the Vibe. I'd love to hear what that title actually is in a few adjectives that you find yourself coming back to when you're thinking about what the store is like and what kind of atmosphere you want to cultivate.

Alison Frenzel [00:26:37] Yes, that award was given to me at our staff party. And I know it was like a tongue in cheek with them because usually when I come in the store, I sometimes will change the music because it's not the right vibe or, you know, set things right that I think maybe need to... the vibe is obscure, you can't actually grasp it. But that's like more intuition of what I want people to experience.

I know I drive myself crazy because, you know, they're like, "Okay, we got the vibe down," And then they're "No, maybe not with this" and they change something. But it's really kind of that elusive feeling that we want people to have that it's a place that feels safe and welcoming and everyone feels like they can find a book that they love, that they are seen, and that they want to stay as long as they can.

We even have food that you can eat. We always joke. We're like, You can literally stay all day. You can have breakfast, lunch, dinner there too.

Anne Bogel [00:27:36] I love it. I have only had the pleasure of spending a few hours in Waco before you all opened, but it strikes me as a unique community. How has your specific place in that community… how has it shaped what Fabled has become?

Alison Frenzel [00:27:49] We're two blocks away from Magnolia. So Magnolia sees hundreds of thousands of tourists every year. And it's tempting to kind of say, well, we're going to open up this shop next to them, and then, you know, hopefully the tourists come over to us.

But I think Kimberly and I both felt like you have to establish your own community. So we really leaned into doing research around Waco and just found that there are so many readers. And the fact that we didn't have an independent bookstore was kind of crazy.

So I have felt that in our community we have the people who support us and really gathered around us when COVID happened because we were like a newborn baby as a store. I really compare it to having children because in the beginning it's like a newborn that you cannot leave for very long by itself. And then as it gets older and then you can start leaving it for longer periods of time and it becomes more and more independent.

So when COVID happened, we've only been open a few months. We were a newborn baby. We didn't know what was going to happen, of course, like everyone else, and our community gathered around us and supported us with whatever we offered them because I... And we felt it. They were like, "You're not going to disappear after this." That was overwhelming and amazing and gave us confidence to keep offering things that they would like.

And now I would say we have our own tourists, like book lovers that come from all around the country. I mean, Elizabeth would even tell you that she meets with people all the time that are like, "I'm from Illinois" or "I'm from Washington," and they come and visit us. I'm humbled and honored that they do that. It really shows you how wonderful the book-lover community is.

Anne Bogel [00:29:33] Elizabeth, you're the book buyer at Fabled. And you have to explain a little bit more about what Alison is referring to when she says you meet with these readers who've come from all over.

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:29:41] I never grew up with an independent bookstore in my area, and it was something that was deeply lacking, I felt like, in my life. So now I just feel so blessed that we have a beautiful, independent bookstore down the street from me.

But we really want to be that independent bookstore for people all over the country who may not have an indie in their neck of the woods. Or maybe they do, and they still prefer to shop at Fabled. So almost everything we do at the store, we like to offer it to our online community as well.

And honestly, you know, as hard as COVID was and how amazing Alison and Kimberly were at kind of pivoting with the ship, this newborn baby ship in a hurricane six months after we opened, there's been some really neat benefits. We have really developed a great online presence.

So one of the things I offer is walking the shelves with me so you can email me or DM me on @wacoreads on Instagram and either set up an in-store appointment, or we literally walk the shelves together. You say, "These are the books I love, and this is what I'm looking for," and I can find the perfect book for that customer.

But if you're living in Alaska, and this has happened before, we do FaceTime appointments. So I'm on FaceTime and we're literally walking the shelves with people and they have their browser open. And it's something I really, really enjoy doing. I get to meet so many wonderful people around the country. And there are some who make regular appointments with me. "Hey, I've just read through the eight books that I had last time I was walking the shelves and I need more." And I love that.

Anne Bogel [00:31:21] Tell me about a sleeper hit that's selling really well in your store?

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:31:26] Well, I don't know if it's a sleeper hit now, it seemed like it was going to be. But the Bandit Queens was one that I read in October. I hadn't heard anything about it, by Parini Shroff. We picked it for one of our book club books. And we can't keep it in the store. It's just hysterical. It's a debut author. We got to speak to her this week and really love her. We love getting to champion debut authors. I'm sure you do, too, Anne. But that's one that was a sleeper hit.

Another one that was one from, I guess, last year or the year before was Shiner by Amy Jo Burns. Alison read it in the catalog, it was kind of in the back of the catalog, and she said, "Hey, Elizabeth, I really love this. What do you think?" And we loved it. It actually sold more than any other paperback in the store last year. And we love that. So there's been some sleeper hits for sure.

The other one I would say... Alison says she's got The Keeper of the Vibe award. Well, my award was the Queen of Crime. I love mysteries and thrillers and really love the niche genre of Nordic noir. One that we've sold really well is The Keeper of Lost Causes by Jussi Adler-Olsen. So I'm sure Jussi is going, "What in the world is going on in Waco, Texas? So many of my books are selling there." But that's been fun, too. But those are some that we like to sell, among a myriad of others.

Anne Bogel [00:32:44] Oh, that sounds like fun. Elizabeth, what's a book that you personally find yourself recommending all the time?

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:32:50] I absolutely loved These Silent Woods by Kimi Cunningham Grant. I think it's a book that really appeals to a wide swath of readers. It's pretty easy for me to recommend that one. Another one I love to sell is Roses by Leila Meacham. It's an older one. But when I tell people it's a Texas version of Gone with the Wind, that's all I have to say and it sells like crazy at the store.

Anne Bogel [00:33:14] I've never read that one.

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:33:15] She was great. Recently passed away. But all of her books have a little Texas connection. And that was one I really enjoyed. One of those sweeping sagas that so many of our readers love.

Anne Bogel [00:33:28] Yeah, like a really big book you can get lost in?

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:33:31] Oh, yes.

Anne Bogel [00:33:32] A Texas-sized novel.

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:33:33] Yes, absolutely.

Anne Bogel [00:33:36] Alison, what's a book you find yourself recommending all the time?

Alison Frenzel [00:33:40] I love this book called The Which Way Tree by Elizabeth Crook. I don't even remember how I stumbled on it, but it is just this wonderful book that not a lot of people know about. It's a Western, it feels like Moby-Dick, True Grit. It is so wonderful. It's absolute delight. I recommend it to everybody in the shop.

Anne Bogel [00:34:05] I don't know that book. I'm so excited to hear. Thanks for telling us about it today.

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:34:09] Oh, Anne, I think you would like that one. That seems like it has an Anne vibe to it.

Alison Frenzel [00:34:13] I think so. I think everybody would love it.

Anne Bogel [00:34:16] Oh, everybody would love it. That is a bold claim. I love it. I'm here for it. Alison, is there anything new or especially exciting happening lately at Fabled?

Alison Frenzel [00:34:24] Yes. This past year, we got an email from the Discovery Network, and they were doing a new show called Storefront Stories, where they were just going in and talking to those owners about the vibe and their approach about what their store looks like. So they emailed us and filmed for two full days, and I think the episode is 6 minutes.

Anne Bogel [00:34:50] Oh, my gosh.

Alison Frenzel [00:34:52] It was amazing and eye-opening and very intimidating. But it was such an honor to be featured on that show. And you can watch it now on the Discovery Network.

Anne Bogel [00:35:01] That is amazing. Elizabeth and Alison, thank you so much for coming back on the show and for giving us a peek inside Fabled and what's happening there now.

Elizabeth Barnhill [00:35:09] Good talking to you. And come see us.

Alison Frenzel [00:35:10] Thanks so much, Anne.

Anne Bogel [00:35:13] Roxanne, welcome back to the show.

Roxanne Coady [00:35:15] Well, thank you. I'm delighted to join you again.

Anne Bogel [00:35:18] Oh, it's a pleasure. We connected on What Should I Read Next? way back in April 2018 when we talked about how you found a calling that appealed to your heart rather than your head, and also emotionally resonant narratives, which are my favorite, nonfiction that hold your hand through tough times, and of course, a little bit about the business of RJ Julia. And then I got to visit myself in March 2020.

And Roxanne, I don't know how you feel about those. They feel like the last days of the normal-ish times.

Roxanne Coady [00:35:45] Yeah, it's true.

Anne Bogel [00:35:46] RJ Julia was one of the very last places I got to see in person before the shutdown, and I'm so glad I got to make it there to Madison because my visit there made me want to move to New England immediately.

And I'm going to try to capture the personality of the store, the one in downtown Madison. It felt to me very traditional and also very fresh. It was packed with books and other good stuff. Y'all had so many fun goodies and knickknacks and the kind of thing that readers love that aren't books.

You also really had a wonderful span of ages and reading taste represented both in the merchandise and the books and also among your staff and clientele

Roxanne Coady [00:36:23] Well, thank you for that.

Anne Bogel [00:36:25] Well, that was me just dropping in for 24 hours in 2020. How would you describe the personality and feel of RJ Julia?

Roxanne Coady [00:36:33] Well, you know, one of the things that's been interesting... So we've been around almost 33 years. And what is interesting is that we've been able to take what looks like a classic bookstore with the mahogany bookcases and the oriental rugs and all of that. But we have a team of people that do the merchandizing that is extraordinary.

So I'm happy to hear that it does what you say it does because that's our goal. I think the idea of any bookstore is always that you come in there and the sense of discovery is just compelling. And that's about making sure that you're not being narrow in what somebody's reading tastes are.

You know, we always say you might be able to read a book by a cover, but you certainly can read a person by their appearance. So the older woman with white hair who comes in might want cutting-edge fiction, not what you think she might want. Or the young guy coming in might want what would be called chick-lit romance. So what I hope the store does is just feel like you're in a place where there is discovery.

Anne Bogel [00:37:55] How do you do that just from a practical standpoint, whether that's your booksellers or the way you lay out books in the store? Something I loved about R.J. Julia is you had so many face-out staff picks and booksellers who were enthusiastic about talking about them, whether it was a book they loved or they knew their coworker loved that they'd heard their coworker talking about endlessly in a way that meant they were truly devoted to that book.

How do you do that? I know your mission is putting the right book in the right hand. So tell me about what it means to carry that out.

Roxanne Coady [00:38:26] So what that means is in the hiring that we make sure that the booksellers that we're hiring represent a range of the type of reader. We're obviously making sure that somebody we're hiring is excited about putting the right book in the right hand. Because, you know, Anne, you probably feel the same way I do, and I talked to our staff about this. You know, books can change a life.

You know, you come in and you're in a sad mood and you find the right book and you go home and you could be in a better mood. Or you've just experienced a loss or a diagnosis or happy news, or you just found out you're pregnant. So having staff that really feel that that's their purpose is the vibe in the store. And it's now part of our DNA.

Anne Bogel [00:39:21] I would love to hear about a high and/or a low in the store since we last connected. So 2018 to 2023, RJ Julia has been through a lot good and bad in that span.

Roxanne Coady [00:39:33] Yeah, exactly. So we, in fact, reopened in ten days as a fulfillment place. And then we ended up with this program that was insane. That is Chris Murphy, who's our senator and I put together a program where we were going to get people to donate money so we could give out books and free launch programs in our major cities here in Connecticut.

So we raised $250,000 and we handed out books for six weeks, eight weeks in Bridgeport, New Haven, Meriden, Middletown. I did some of that myself. So most cities kept their free lunch programs going, but we would be set up with tables. We worked with Random House and Simon & Schuster. We put together books for different ages, and every kid could take two books every week.

Anne Bogel [00:40:43] Oh, that's amazing.

Roxanne Coady [00:40:45] So what we accomplished with that was obviously $250,000 of sales. But more importantly to our mission, we handed out $250,000 of free books. The satisfaction of watching our staff step to the plate in a way I could have never imagined was one of the most life-affirming things that I've ever gone through.

I mean, they were extraordinary. They were as committed to our meeting the needs of our readers as if it was their store and their personal mission. So I would have to say that we have had some of the best of our 33 years in these last years.

And, you know, here's what it reminded me of, Anne. It's a long game. It's a long game. You don't ask for favors after you haven't been a good employer. You don't ask your customers to do things and you haven't taken care of them and made it clear that you're a partnership.

So what I felt the best about is that the relationships we had in our community with our staff were not transactional. They were founded in a deep commitment to each other. And we had enough of the track record among ourselves for that to be the case.

Anne Bogel [00:42:32] You sound so proud of that staff.

Roxanne Coady [00:42:34] I am.

Anne Bogel [00:42:35] Having been there on March 5th, 2020, it does not surprise me to hear how they stepped up. But I'm thrilled to hear it.

Roxanne Coady [00:42:41] They were great. So, you know, I feel blessed and I feel incredibly lucky that we were able to keep doing what we did.

Anne Bogel [00:42:51] It's clear in listening to you, Roxanne, that one of the things that has made you such a pillar of the local community, if I'm allowed to say that, is that you're deeply committed to them. Like when you put a book into someone's hand, it really can change their life. It can be with them through a really important time. As you were just saying, during those early scary days of COVID, having the right book could be the escape, the information, the relief, the distraction that we all needed.

On that note, of course, reading is personal, but I would love to hear about some of the books that have proven to be especially popular among your readers.

Roxanne Coady [00:43:26] I'll pick a couple of books that I think are known across the country that have been big for us, too. One is Lessons in Chemistry. I haven't read it but everybody.... It seems to appeal to readers up and down the reading taste level. And that's done well for us as has Horse by Gwendolyn Brooks. So those are books that I think are sort of everywhere, and they're doing well for us, are doing well across the country.

The books that I find that we're doing well with, and I feel proud of this because we were on this book early, is the book Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan. I wrote about it in Dear Reader, and it didn't have big name recognition yet, and I think we sold a couple hundred copies in short order.

Anne Bogel [00:44:24] Roxanne, I have to tell you, I ordered that book myself from Andrea Griffith at a bookstore on the opposite coast because she did the same thing. I hadn't heard of it yet at the time. It was brand new. And she said, "Let me tell you how much I love this and why." And I clicked that buy button so quick. I can just picture all your readers doing the same thing.

Roxanne Coady [00:44:42] Yeah. And, you know, part of what I loved about that book, aside from the exquisite writing, is it really shows what it's like to be brave in a situation where there might be a price for your bravery. I don't think we have enough of that. I don't think we have enough of that bravery.

The other book that we're probably uniquely selling that makes me gloriously happy is Jacques Pepin lives in our community-

Anne Bogel [00:45:16] I didn't know.

Roxanne Coady [00:45:17] ...and is a good friend of the store. His latest book is called Art of the Chicken. He's an exquisite painter. So it has all these chickens he's painted in various states of seriousness and frivolity. It's a little bit of a memoir, and then it's sort of a casual recipes involving chicken, whether it's chicken his grandmother made or his mother made in France or he and his wife made. We've sold thousands of that book because Jacques Pepin is hands down one of the most generously spirited people you could ever possibly meet.

Anne Bogel [00:46:04] That sounds like an amazing comfort read. I want to go pick that up right now.

Roxanne Coady [00:46:08] Oh, my God, you'll just be happy.

Anne Bogel [00:46:11] Sometimes that is everything I want in a book.

Roxanne Coady [00:46:14] Yeah. You'll just be super, super happy. You'll be satisfied visually, emotionally, intellectually. You will just be super happy.

Anne Bogel [00:46:24] Yes, please to all of it.

Roxanne Coady [00:46:26] As you know, I do a podcast, but I only interview nonfiction writers. So I'm often reading nonfiction books that sometimes they're very well-known. Like I interviewed Billy Collins the other day. But one of the guys I interviewed is a man by the name of John Sweet. He wrote a book called The Sewing Girl's Tale, nonfiction set in revolutionary times in New York City. And it is the true story of a 17-year-old seamstress who was raped by one of the most prominent citizens of New York at that time. And she sued him and it was brought to trial.

John Sweet is just a lovely, lovely writer. But you learn about the Revolutionary War, you learn about New York City, even geographically. And as a New Yorker, you know, you see where there was this huge farm in what's now Times Square, you know, all this funky stuff. You learn about what the law was like then. You learn what daily life was like then. And you are immersed in her story, and what gave her the courage to do this, what was the outcome, where did everybody end up.

So Sewing Girl's Tale is a book that we're hand-selling that isn't yet getting the widespread attention that it should.

Anne Bogel [00:48:03] Would you say a little bit about the satisfaction of finding something wonderful and helping it find its audience? You've mentioned that now with John Sweet and with Claire Keegan.

Roxanne Coady [00:48:14] You know, one of the things I think about, when I first opened the store, I was doing the buying, the shelving, and the hand selling, right? Whenever I would return a book, take it off the shelf because it didn't sell, I could see the whole arc of the writer thinking of it, of the writer writing it, of the writer finding the publisher for it, of the publisher trying to market it to bookstores and readers and our booksellers trying to sell it. And I just think about all of that effort needs to be rewarded.

And as you and I both know, the number... I mean, I forget what the average number of books that any book publisher sells, but it's not a lot. You know, you've got the books that are selling millions and then you're getting the books that are selling 5,000 copies.

Anne Bogel [00:49:11] Which is about the average. Yeah.

Roxanne Coady [00:49:13] So, to me, if any of us booksellers find a book that resonates with us, the opportunity to introduce it to a lot of people... You know, that's why we're booksellers. You know, it's pretty damn satisfying to be doing that.

So one of the books I want to make sure I mention that... You know, you always need the fiction book that appeals to a broad range of readers. Particularly when you don't know somebody's particular reading taste. So some books are plot-driven, character-driven, some are deconstruction, some are harder to get into, some you have to surrender to.

But one of the fiction books that came out this year that is the book for me that I don't know anyone who's read it male, female, 25 or 80 that doesn't love it is Signal Fire by Dani Shapiro. It's perfect fiction. You don't need to work hard to get into it, you're gripped immediately, you're attached to all the characters. The story makes you think about how you live your life, what matters to you, what do you want to pay attention to?

So every season I try to make sure I have a book in my head that is good for anybody. And that would be the book I would say right now, for me, if somebody wants a good fiction read, I know they're going to like Signal Fires.

Anne Bogel [00:50:50] Oh, it's so exciting to hear what you are excited about. Roxanne, what are you excited about that's on the horizon for yourself and your store?

Roxanne Coady [00:50:58] So we have an e-commerce site called Just the Right Book, which is a personalized book of the month program, and we invested quite a bit into refining the software for that. I'm very excited about relaunching, recommitting to that. I am really excited about the ability to grow that. And to the point of this conversation, the letters we get are "I would have never picked this book out and I loved it".

Anne Bogel [00:51:34] Oh, that's so satisfying to hear.

Roxanne Coady [00:51:36] Right. That's what we want to be doing. You know, I think it's what you do on What Should I Read Next? Because I remember you did that with me. The book you picked out for me was I think it was I Am, I Am, I Am by Maggie O'Farrell.

Anne Bogel [00:51:54] We talked about that book.

Roxanne Coady [00:51:56] You were the one who told me about it. So I thought, "No, I'm a pretty good bookseller, I hadn't picked that up." I mean, I'm sure it's, you know, what drives you to keep working so hard and doing what you're doing.

Anne Bogel [00:52:13] I think you said it well. And yet I do have a hard time articulating precisely why it is so deeply fulfilling to see a book find its audience or to put an undiscovered gem in the path of exactly the right reader. Maybe it feels like something right is clicking into the place in one tiny little piece of the universe when we're able to help those connections happen.

Roxanne Coady [00:52:35] Well, I think that's exactly right, Anne. Because at the end of the day, I think what makes most of us happy is having a sense of purpose. I think in bookselling, we have a kind of easy opportunity to have a sense of purpose.

Anne Bogel [00:52:57] I hadn't thought of it precisely like that. I love that.

Roxanne Coady [00:53:01] Right? But I think that it. You know, we have a lot of us working for not a lot of money in this industry, and, you know, that needs to get fixed and we need to try to make it be financially viable for everybody to have a good living by doing this. But it does have a wonderful sense of purpose.

So when I think about, about to, you know, turn 74, I think I'm still excited about what I'm doing. How lucky is that? I mean, of course, it's true in a million industries. But I think for readers, it is easy to stay excited in this industry because every day there's thousands of new books. There's nothing stale. It's always iterative and evolving, and there's new writers and new areas to explore.

You know, think about how multicultural a lot of very successful books are now that were hiding in dark corners, and they're now getting attention and interest by readers. So we're learning about new countries, we're learning about new ways of thinking, we're understanding history better. You know, it's pretty great.

Anne Bogel [00:54:22] I wouldn't trade it.

Roxanne Coady [00:54:23] Exactly. I would not.

Anne Bogel [00:54:25] Roxanne, thanks so much for taking the time to come back and talk about your work in RJ Julia with us.

Roxanne Coady [00:54:30] Anne, it was lovely. Keep doing the great work that you're doing.

Anne Bogel [00:54:38] Readers. I hope you enjoyed today's conversations. I'd love to hear your stories of visiting these independent bookstores or others you have loved, others that have meant a lot to you. Share those stories in the comments over on our show notes page at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com. That's where you'll find links to all the books and bookstores mentioned today.

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Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by Will Bogel, Holly Wielkoszewski, and Studio D Podcast Production. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah! how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.