Anne Bogel [00:00:00] Do you have an actual trip planned any way down the horizon?

Corin Cook [00:00:03] No, I wish. It's a dream. Maybe one day I'll make it out there. For now I'll just read about it and watch movies about it.

Anne Bogel [00:00:13] Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

I am so excited to share today's episode with you for a host of reasons you're about to hear a little about and for one that has already made an enjoyable difference in my life. It wasn't that long ago that I recorded with today's guest Corin Cook and got to hear all about her personal project that she dubbed her Summer of European Reading. You're about to hear her proclaim her love for the Before trilogy of movies, that's Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, and Before Midnight, and how she's seeking a similar kind of vibe in her reading.

Well, I had my second colonoscopy this month, and yes, I'm a little young, but I have a family history. And my little PSA for you is that it wasn't that long ago that the recommended age for a first colonoscopy was lowered from 50 to 45. So, friends, get your cancer screenings if that applies to you. I didn't feel awesome after the procedure, is pretty common, so I crashed on the couch. And do you know what I did? I watched all three of those movies back to back to back on a weekday. And it was glorious.

And I know some of you are thinking, Anne, you weren't reading? And friends, like, I like stuff on the screen, too. Movies are great. So thank you, Corin, for recommending those movies. I really enjoyed that experience.

But that's not all I have to thank Corin in this episode for. After I recommended a certain title to Corin that takes place largely in Italy, and I'm not going to tell you what it is because I don't want to spoil what I recommend at the end of this episode, I got to thinking about how it would be a good candidate for a One Great Book episode. That's something we do roughly monthly over in our Patreon community. And that's what I did. I chose that book. I got to talk all about it. So thank you, Corin, for that inspiration as well.

I am so grateful for the show and our community of readers here. We hear from many of you that it's done and continue to do great things for your reading life. And thank you, I'm always humbled and honored to hear that. But I want you to know that is true for me as well. Our guests and this community of readers make my reading life better every single week.

We would love to hear about just one way, big or small, that What Should I Read Next? has impacted you as a reader. And a fun and helpful to others way that you could do that is by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts. We would love to hear from you there. Those reviews and ratings also help new readers find our show, which we would be deeply grateful for. Thanks in advance, friends.

Now, let me tell you a little more about our episode today. Corin appreciates the seasonal rhythms of New England where she lives and this strong sense of atmosphere is something she also craves in her reading life. She's in Rhode Island, where she works as a senior marketing manager and loves to spend time outdoors with her husband and dog. When summer rolls around, she's usually devouring books that make her feel immersed in the sensations of the season. And this summer, Corin has her sights set on Europe.

Corin came to us via our guest submissions page, and I could not wait to talk to her about her immersive summer of European reading project. She's drawing inspiration from some of her favorite films and searching for books that defy tourist clichés and transport her to Europe's bustling cities or to beautiful Mediterranean coast, and deliver a specific sort of laid-back feeling of being in Europe in the summertime. Today, I'm recommending titles that will hopefully deliver on that sensory seasonal reading experience Corin is seeking. Let's get to it.

Corin, welcome to the show.

Corin Cook [00:04:04] Thanks, Anne. I'm thrilled to be here.

Anne Bogel [00:04:06] Oh, it's a pleasure. I've been looking forward to our conversation, which, in more ways than you even realize, is perfectly timed for right now. I am excited to jump in. Corin, we want to start by giving our audience just a sense of who we're talking to today. Would you give our readers a glimpse of who you are and what you do when you're not on What Should I Read Next??

Corin Cook [00:04:26] Sure. I've been a lifelong New Englander and I currently live in Pawtucket, Rhode Island with my husband Matt, and my Shiba Inu Willow. I really love all things creative and have a passion for all the arts, including books, film, movies, music, physical arts, all of it. I've also been a writer my whole life, and my professional background is in writing.

I'm currently a senior marketing manager of an independent insurance agency, and I can truly say I love my job. But ironically, as many people who go into writing probably can relate to, the further I've progressed in my career the less writing I actually do day to day. But that's totally fine with me because it's still a really important part of my personal life. And I do a lot of writing on the side and want to be a novelist one day.

Other than that, I really enjoy spending time outside hiking, snowboarding, golfing, going to the beach, as well as collecting books, movies, vinyl, painting, cooking, attending concerts. I like it all.

Anne Bogel [00:05:20] Oh, what a lovely variety! I love to hear that. Now, Corin, where does your reading life fit in with your life? Tell me a little bit about your background with reading.

Corin Cook [00:05:28] So for as long as I can remember, I've been a reader. When I was preschool-aged, my nanny used to stay at my house and watch me every day, and she was always a big reader and read with me. So I learned to read at a pretty young age and really never stopped. I mostly read classics or literary fiction as physical copies but I do some memoirs and nonfiction as well through audio. I tend to like that format for memoirs and nonfiction.

I also tend to avoid newer books because I often feel like sometimes when they're getting all the hype they can be a little disappointing because I feel like they're not necessarily going to stand the test of time. But I did join a book club a few years ago that really helped me be more open to those newer and lighter books.

Also, the most important aspects of a book to me is atmosphere. You know, characters and story is important as well, but I really do love the atmosphere, so I'm an extreme seasonal reader. Living in New England, I'm lucky that I get to experience all four seasons, but they do all go by so quickly. So I really like to fully enjoy each season before it passes. And I tend to set reading themes or sometimes even themes outside of my reading life to mark the time, so it's not just like a blip in my history.

And I'd say it's become a pretty good skill of mine because there have been several instances where I'll start a book that I picked for a specific time and then I'll realize that it's actually taking place on that specific like day or week that I decided to start reading it.

Anne Bogel [00:06:50] I love it when that happens. Tell me about discovering that atmosphere was the biggest thing for you.

Corin Cook [00:06:58] That's a good question. I think I just appreciate nature and, you know, the seasons, like I said, so much. I love every season. I mean, spring is okay. I get a lot of allergies, so that's probably my least favorite. But I love, you know, the summer and the fall and the winter. And I really just like to fully enjoy those seasons. They all have such a different feeling to me, and they're all associated with such different memories. So I think it really helps when I kind of read in that way. That really helps like bulk up that experience of, you know, the memories or the feeling that those seasons give.

Anne Bogel [00:07:31] Okay, we will keep that in mind. Corin, when you sent in your submission and our submissions form, listeners, that is whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/guest, I was so intrigued by the summer project you were planning. Would you tell me and our listeners more about what you have in mind for this season?

Corin Cook [00:07:50] Sure. So as I said, I'm a big seasonal reader and I often set seasonal themes, especially in the summer. But I tend to find myself going back to the same two themes, alternating basically. So this year I want to try something different and read books mainly set in Europe. So as I mentioned before, I'm really into film as well. My husband and I both love watching films. And he's really into collecting the Criterion collection of movies and I also watch the Turner Classic Movie Channel all the time.

And we just found that last summer we were watching a lot of older movies that were set in Europe in roughly like the 40s through 70s, and I just found that I really loved the setting of the, you know, beautiful, relaxing, slow days traveling through Europe. And it just kind of felt like a dream summer vacation setting I'd like to immerse myself in. So I really wanted to find books that felt like those movies that we were watching last summer.

Anne Bogel [00:08:41] Well, that sounds delightful. Have you already started assembling those titles?

Corin Cook [00:08:47] I do have a list of books that I'm considering, but I'm just not quite sure they all fit the exact vibe I'm going for. I think in my research there have been a lot of European books that feel like maybe they're written by an American who doesn't really have that dense European experience and they're just focusing on that European story, even though it might not really tie in to what the atmosphere actually feels like being there, if that makes sense.

So I'm just sort of looking for... And I think the films I watch have a way of doing that. Obviously, there are films that you can see the richness of the, you know, architecture and the towns and the people. So it might be a little harder to convey that in a book, I would think.

Anne Bogel [00:09:27] Mm-hmm, I see what you mean. We're going to talk about the books you love in a moment. But first, I think we need to start with the movies you love. Would you tell me about a handful that you really have in mind when you're thinking about the vibe you want to recreate in your reading this summer?

Corin Cook [00:09:40] Some that really stick out are the Before trilogy, Pierrot le Fou, La Dolce Vita, Paris When It Sizzles, Charade, Betty Blue, and La Piscine. And actually currently right now my husband and I are working our way through [Agnès Varda?] box set who is a French director. And that is kind of also really fitting the vibe that I'm looking for as well.

Anne Bogel [00:10:01] Okay. Pick one of these films, maybe your favorite, maybe the most recent one you've watched, and tell me a little bit about the emotional experience it generates for you.

Corin Cook [00:10:11] For example, the Before trilogy, it's three movies and they're all films approximately ten years apart, but they're the same actors in the movie. And the premise is it takes place in Paris, I believe, or around that area. These two strangers meet each other and have like 24 hours or less together. And they kind of just get really intrigued in conversation and in each other that time. And the whole time they're just walking through the streets, like having these deep philosophical conversations about life and love. And you really just see the environment in the way.

It's kind of like a background character to these two characters who are meeting for the first time. And the premise is sort of, you know, they plan to meet up like a year later. But, you know, the next movie takes place ten years later, if that gives you any inkling as to what happens next.

Anne Bogel [00:10:59] So tell me about the emotional experience of watching this film, the trilogy.

Corin Cook [00:11:04] I feel like it's rare to meet a person and connect to that deeply. So I think it's so interesting to see the two characters kind of sort of fall in love in a way in a day by just getting to know each other. And like I said, I think the romantic atmosphere of Paris and the area and all the streets and the nature that they're walking through just makes it that much more evocative emotionally. If this was taking place in, you know, a living room, it would not be the same as if they're spending the day walking through, you know, the beautiful streets.

Anne Bogel [00:11:32] Mm-hmm. Okay. I think it's interesting you chose the most recent one.

Corin Cook [00:11:36] Yeah. And it's funny because I do tend to prefer the older ones, but that just kind of gave that feeling. It just stood out to me as one that really stuck with me.

Anne Bogel [00:11:43] Now let's go for a more classic. Tell me about the vibes of, like, La Dolce Vita or Paris When It Sizzles.

Corin Cook [00:11:52] So Paris When It Sizzles is a funny one because that one wasn't even on my radar. I had the Turner Classic Movie channel all my summer while I was cleaning or doing whatever, and it just popped on and I was like, "Okay, I got to stop what I'm doing and watch this." Like, I love the feeling of this.

And that one, I think a lot of the reason why it ties like Europe and summer together, because a lot of these movies feel like they're taking place in the summer as well. And this one specifically, it was a writer who was trying to work on and he had a movie deadline like the next weekend, and someone comes to stay with him to be like his typist for his script. But he is kind of off the rails. He's drinking. He won't focus in on his scripts and he's just kind of trying to communicate with her and like spend the weekend with her instead of focusing on his work. But the whole time it's set in this atmosphere of, you know, Paris when it's like steamy hot in the summer and it's a holiday week in that weekend. The storyline and the setting really just tied together so well for me.

Anne Bogel [00:12:48] Corin, this is a difficult question to answer, but are you able to articulate what it is that speaks to you from these films? Like do you wish you could have that experience for yourself? Do you enjoy the experience of being transported someplace totally different from where you're living in your everyday life but it seems like a really nice place to visit? Is it more about the love and longing and connection? What calls out to you here?

Corin Cook [00:13:13] I think I'm a very nostalgic person and sometimes for me that means being nostalgic for times I haven't lived through or places I haven't gone. And I think that's why I mentioned I always fall back into the same to summer reading themes, usually. And I think when I pick those themes, it's something that I don't necessarily get to experience but I'm familiar with. It's not like I'm reading books that are set in like, I don't know, the Philippines, which I have no really real-life experience with or connection to in terms of, you know, personally where then I haven't traveled a lot. But I'm of European descent, so I like understand what the culture's like there more.

The two themes that I always go back to were like 1960s music festivals, road tripping, free, you know, counterculture sort of thing. And that's just like I've seen so much on that. I really love music and I love music of the 60s. So I like to transport myself back to that time, which I didn't get to live, but I would love to experience that. So if that makes any sense. I think I just feel nostalgic for things that I would like to experience.

Anne Bogel [00:14:18] Okay. I like it. When I say the word "wistful", how do you feel about that?

Corin Cook [00:14:22] I like that word. I think that would describe me.

Anne Bogel [00:14:28] Corin, I think it's time to talk about your books. Are you ready?

Corin Cook [00:14:31] I'm ready.

Anne Bogel [00:14:32] Okay. You know how this works. You're going to tell me three books you love, one book you don't, and what you've been reading lately and we'll talk about what that may mean for your summer of European reading. Now, how did you choose these favorites?

Corin Cook [00:14:45] So this was really hard for me to choose as I know most people who go on the show experience. But I tried to pick books that each represent something that I look for or appreciate in my reading life.

Anne Bogel [00:14:55] Okay. I'm happy to hear it. Tell me about the first book you love.

Corin Cook [00:14:59] My first book I love is In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. So In Cold Blood it's often considered sort of the first true crime work. It takes a look at the real-life murders of the Clutter family in 1959 Kansas. But unlike modern-day true crime, which can be kind of sensationalized or treated like more of a mystery, this is more of a journalistic account. So, you know, right off the bat who the killers are. And it follows the story in detail of both the Clutter family and the two killers.

I find it really fascinating because Capote and Harper Lee actually went down to Kansas during that time and interviewed the whole community. And I think they got like 8,000 pages of notes. And this is including the killers. They got close relationship with the killers. So you get a lot of their perspective and motive and story as well, which I think is kind of unheard of in these scenarios and something that I found really interesting.

I think as someone who comes from a journalistic background, I really respect this book because of all that research. It's so well-researched and compelling and detailed. It combines both nonfiction with beautiful prose, which I think is so unique. And also in a weird way, it kind of serves as a road trip book, which is something that I'm actually always a sucker for. So that works for me as well.

Anne Bogel [00:16:10] Okay, thank you for that. What is the second book that you chose as a favorite?

Corin Cook [00:16:15] Leave Her To Heaven by Ben Ames Williams. I chose this book because it's not set in Europe but I actually feel like it represents a lot of what I'm looking for in my summer of European reading. I actually came across the film first last summer, I watched it and then I found out it was based on a book written the year before in 1944. So I had to buy it and read it immediately.

It centers around a novelist named Richard who meets a socialite named Ellen, who's drawn to Richard because he reminds her of her deceased father. And they fall in love but her obsession with him drives her to go to extreme lengths to make sure she's the only thing that he cares about.

And it takes place in multiple locations in the U.S. but much of it takes place at a lakeside cabin in Maine. And I really like the description of all the settings and how it gives sort of an extended summer vacation feeling, which is what I'm looking for in my European set reads.

And another thing worth noting is I've also recently come to realize that I enjoy reading about flawed or unlikable characters. Ellen is extremely stubborn and powerful, but in the most deceitful and manipulative ways, and the lengths she goes to to get her way are so extreme that I almost can't help but admire her for it, even though she's doing terrible, terrible things along the way. But I find it fascinating.

Anne Bogel [00:17:32] That's such an intriguing description. I haven't read this one or seen the movie but I'm definitely interested.

Corin Cook [00:17:37] Yeah, it's great.

Anne Bogel [00:17:38] Corin, what did you choose for your third favorite?

Corin Cook [00:17:41] My third favorite is Breakfast of Champions by Kurt Vonnegut. I chose this book because it kind of represents the uniqueness that I always try to seek out in books. And Vonnegut is one of my favorite writers for that reason. Actually, as an aside, a few years ago... we go to the Cape quite a bit because my in-laws live there and we always love to visit Barnstable Village. It's an old rustic village in the Cape with a coffee shop we love to go to. And it's just so quaint.

And after years of going there, we learned that Vonnegut's house is actually right there in the center of town where he wrote all his most famous works. And it was just really cool to be like, "Oh, it's been here all along. Like our favorite writer is right here." So that was kind of fun.

Breakfast of Champions follows sort of the intersecting stories of a car dealer and a science fiction writer in their face after they eventually meet. It's written in such a witty and trite way, and it includes, you know, running jokes and silly illustrations that Vonnegut drew. And the events that unfold are just so random and out there. So for all those reasons, it can seem kind of just like a zany story on the service level. But when you really dive in, it's actually a social commentary of really important issues. And I think that's an interesting way to still look at, you know, these important social issues just through a completely different lens sometimes helps you see it better. And also it is another road trip story. So you're seeing a theme.

Anne Bogel [00:18:57] It is a road trip story, isn't it?

Corin Cook [00:18:59] It is.

Anne Bogel [00:19:01] Okay. It's been a long time since I read that one. Corin, now, tell me about a book that was not a good fit for you.

Corin Cook [00:19:08] So Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert didn't work for me. This one was kind of disappointing to me because it seemed right up my alley. It's a memoir. It's a travel story. It deals with identity. Those are all things that I love. I'm an Enneagram Four, so I really love diving deep on identity and self-discovery and purpose and the meaning of life. So I really thought this would do it for me, but it just didn't.

Anne Bogel [00:19:30] Can you say more about that?

Corin Cook [00:19:32] I felt like this was a story that she was mostly like writing for herself to reflect on her own experience, which I think is great. But I feel like she almost wanted it to be like a bigger masterpiece of a story. So I felt like along the way there were all these like coincidences and full circle moments that just seem like too unrealistic to be true. So I just kind of wasn't buying it the whole time. And, you know, at the risk of being too critical because this isn't a protagonist, it's a real person who wrote this, I just felt like I didn't necessarily resonate with her story or her choices she was making throughout her journey.

Anne Bogel [00:20:05] Corin, I'm thinking now about how you said atmosphere is the most important thing, and I'm thinking about how to understand that through the lens of how you're talking about this specific story. How do you remember the atmosphere feeling in Eat, Pray, Love?

Corin Cook [00:20:19] That's a great question. I loved it took place in different places around the world, but I don't know. It centered a lot around the culture of all these places, but I didn't necessarily feel the feelings of the place. I think I was just overshadowed by her story. I also listened to it on audio, so it was very much just like her telling her story. And I think that kind of like outshone the atmosphere because it was about her personal discovery and making a shift in her life. So maybe that just kind of overpowered the atmosphere.

Anne Bogel [00:20:49] The exact thing I'm thinking through is, okay, atmosphere isn't the only thing. But how much weight do we give the plot? And something else I'm wondering, and you'll hear about this when we get into some potential options is what if a really ploty story has a strong setting? Like, is that something you'd be interested in trying?

Corin Cook [00:21:05] Yeah, even better. If it can be both at once, that's the dream scenario.

Anne Bogel [00:21:12] Okay. You know, I was just having a conversation about Big Magic just the other day, which is another nonfiction book by Elizabeth Gilbert. Oh, well, Eat, Pray, Love is nonfiction, but it's a different kind of nonfiction book. So when you said these coincidences seem wild, I was thinking, man, there's some wild coincidences in Big Magic, too. And now I'm just thinking about those things. I've never read Eat, Pray, Love. I almost feel like I have because I've heard so much about it. But we all know hearing about a book is not the same as reading a book. And this is not an experience I've had yet.

Corin Cook [00:21:40] Right. I also think maybe a lot of the reason I'm critical of this book is a reflection of self-criticism because as a writer, I can totally see myself doing what I described, like trying to write a part of my story and assign meaning to something, but falling into hyperbole to make it more like grandiose and more relatable to a reader rather than being my experience. But I think if I did that, I would feel disappointed because it wouldn't feel authentic. And that's almost kind of what I felt like she was doing here, even though... I could be totally wrong. But the coincidences-

Anne Bogel [00:22:07] Oh, no. Do you feel vulnerable on behalf of Elizabeth Gilbert?

Corin Cook [00:22:10] Maybe. I don't know. Maybe I do see myself in her in the way she's trying to write the story. Because like I said, I can see myself doing that, but I just don't think it would be the best way to be authentic in your writing.

Anne Bogel [00:22:22] Okay, well, I'm gonna think about that. Corin, what have you been reading lately?

Corin Cook [00:22:27] I recently finished The Postman Always Rings Twice by James M. Cain. This is the type of book that I tend to pick up often because of sort of the themes and the era that it takes place in. It takes place in 1930s Los Angeles, and it follows a drifter who stumbles into a job at sort of a diner service station that's owned by a man and his wife. There's an affair, there's scheming, there's murder, unlikable characters, all the fun things to read about.

Anne Bogel [00:22:52] What came first? The movie or the book for you?

Corin Cook [00:22:54] I have not seen the movie yet. After I read it, I immediately put on my list to watch soon, for sure.

Anne Bogel [00:23:00] I'd love to hear how that goes.

Corin Cook [00:23:02] And I'm also currently reading Life with Picasso by Françoise Gilot. I picked this one up because a niche genre that I really tend to enjoy is memoirs by partners of artistic geniuses. And this is written by Picasso's partner of ten years. He met when she was 21 and he was in his 60s.

Anne Bogel [00:23:21] Interesting. How's that going?

Corin Cook [00:23:24] It's good. I'm kind of just started it, so I'm just getting into it. But it is just so interesting to me to see a perspective of somebody who's just well-known for his arts and seeing him through the lens of somebody who knows him well and has observed things about him that he wouldn't necessarily be able to have about himself.

Anne Bogel [00:23:41] Okay, Corin, there's a lot we can do here for your summer of European reading. The thing I did not tell you is that my own family is just about to go to Europe for the first time in many, many years. Because while I went to Scotland in 2018, so you all have heard about that on this podcast, but we haven't been back and we're taking our kids for the first time. So I've been doing a ton of reading about London, Paris, and then some cities in Spain. That's one reason I was especially excited to get to talk to you today. So thank you for adding some books to my list and giving me an excuse to deep dive during work hours.

Corin Cook [00:24:13] Perfect. Worked out.

Anne Bogel [00:24:16] It really did. Okay. Now you mentioned that you do have a list of European reads you're considering, but you're not necessarily confident that they're what you're looking for. Do you want to say more about that?

Corin Cook [00:24:29] Sure. I have a list of nine books and I feel like they're all so different, which is good because I don't necessarily want to be reading the exact same book over and over again all summer. But they're just so different that I feel like some will fit and some might not. And it's just hard to know really before you read them what will fit and what won't.

Anne Bogel [00:24:46] Yes, because you're not only looking for the setting, you're looking for a setting that really makes you feel like you're experiencing the place. Is that right?

Corin Cook [00:24:53] Exactly.

Anne Bogel [00:24:54] Okay. I'm looking at this list. Okay, listeners, some of the books are Tropic of Cancer by Henry Miller, Painting Time by Maylis de Kerangal, Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin, Love & Gelato by Jenna Evans Welch, Down and Out in Paris and London by George Orwell. That's a book I've forgotten about. Have you read any of these so far, Corin?

Corin Cook [00:25:11] No, I haven't.

Anne Bogel [00:25:12] Okay. Well, I really like the titles that you've compiled, and it really helps me get a feeling for your thought process. So if you're ready, I think we can talk about some reads for your European vicarious summer.

Corin Cook [00:25:23] I'm ready.

Anne Bogel [00:25:26] Do you have an actual trip planned any way down the horizon?

Corin Cook [00:25:29] No. I wish. It's a dream. Maybe one day I'll make it out there. For now, I'll just read about it and watch movies about it.

Anne Bogel [00:25:35] Maybe one day. Well, we are big fans of armchair travel around here as well. So I love that we can do this today. First of all, I want to start by affirming your instincts in some of the books you have turned out for yourself, because I do think Call Me By Your Name by André Aciman could be perfect for you. How confident were you about that one?

Corin Cook [00:25:56] That actually may be the one I'm most confident about because I've heard you talking about it recently on your podcast. And the way I think you describe the slanting sun in Europe. And I was like, This sounds like the setting. It sounds like this book has a lot of good, dense atmosphere in it. And so like that went on my list because of you, as it did Painting Time.

Anne Bogel [00:26:14] And I wonder if it's a coincidence that it was Laura, another film lover who really loved this book and who loves cinematic storytelling. So, listeners, this is a novel about Elio. He's a male Italian teenager whose parents are academics... it might actually just be his father. But he is accustomed to spending the summer at their Italian seaside villa, where his father always invites in a graduate student to come and hang out and drink wine on the patio and do research and study and enjoy the academic life but in a laid-back kind of setting.

So in the summer when he is 17, Oliver arrives. His father has invited him from America. He's 24. He's so gorgeous. And Oliver knows that he's used to everybody, male or female, falling in love with him. And he's smart and he's charming and he's witty and he is affable. He's just a good time. He's fun to be around.

Elio is used to these graduate students coming through, but he is just completely unprepared to fall completely in love with Oliver. So at first they have an easy friendship and they're hanging out and everything and the attraction is subdued. But the nature of the relationship changes over the course of the summer, and they acknowledge their feelings because they're reciprocated.

This is a love story that unfolds over the course of one summer. And it's very much about the joy and pain and angst and awkwardness and uncertainty of first love on the 17-year-old teenager's heart. There's so much longing in this story, so much yearning.

What I really like about this for you, Corin, is that a lot of the focus of this story is on the feeling. There's a strong sense of place. It's so easy to picture them lounging in the sun and playing tennis and sitting at dinner and jogging along the Italian Riviera. I think you're really going to enjoy that aspect of it. And I also like that because of the way the story is structured, we also see Elio down the road wistfully looking back at this one summer. I think this is a fit for you.

I also want to ask, because I believe you said in your submission that stories of Italy and France were especially of interest to you at the time you wrote that. Is that still true?

Corin Cook [00:28:31] Yeah, I think so. Just something about those two places just seems so beautiful, and then probably in my top tier for [where?] I want to travel. And I just feel kind of more summery, I think, than other European cities, if that makes sense, even though all of Europe experience is summer. I just feel like they have a very summery feeling to them.

Anne Bogel [00:28:47] I mean, maybe because you provided your brain with so, so many vivid images, I can see how when you think European summer it's those snapshots that come to mind first.

Corin Cook [00:28:58] Yeah, that makes sense.

Anne Bogel [00:29:00] So does that sound like what you're looking for?

Corin Cook [00:29:02] Yeah, definitely. I feel like you sold me even more on it. I think the thing that I like about that is it feels like they're kind of in this one place all summer, and it just feels like kind of, like I said earlier, like an extended summer vacation. It feels like they just have long days where they can, like, spend the day doing whatever they want sort of all day and just like live life slowly and enjoy life and enjoy the people around them.

Anne Bogel [00:29:23] That's interesting. I wonder if the sense of time is part of the atmosphere for what you're looking for in the summer project.

Corin Cook [00:29:30] Yes, I think so. A lot of the films that I mentioned that stand out is because it feels like time isn't, you know, crunched. I think I'm always rushing in my life and days go by so fast. So the idea of having a long summer vacation to just sort of chill and relax and enjoy the full day really resonates with me.

Anne Bogel [00:29:50] Okay. I also want to affirm, although I feel less confident in this, but I do think that you would at least find Beautiful Ruins by Jess Walter interesting and worth your time, even if it's not the exact vibe. But it has things going for it that I'm not sure you have even articulated that you're looking for.

This is a historical novel. It's set in a tiny town on the Italian coast, and it has a meta approach to a movie about filmmaking. It contains scenes from plays that are both real and invented. It contains the first chapter of a novel, a pitch for a movie. It contains the text from someone else's memoir. And I think especially as a writer and a film buff, you would find those elements really appealing.

So in April 1962, there's an American actress who mysteriously arrives by boat to a fictional little city on the Italian coast. It's teeny tiny. I think they call it a pinprick of a town. Her name is Dee, and she is gorgeous, alone, and dying. And you find out that she has been exiled here from the set of Cleopatra, a very real Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton film that perhaps you've seen that even today remains one of the most expensive and scandal-ridden movies that has ever been made.

So the story bounces back and forth between present-day Hollywood where there are related happenings and then back to the 60s in the golden era of film. And the plot is driven by a little mystery. We're discovering why a Hollywood power player sent Dee away and then what happens as a result. And there are big summer Italian vibes in this film. And also so much that I think will call you back to your favorite movies and make you want to watch even more, all unfolding in Italy in the summertime. How does that sound to you?

Corin Cook [00:31:41] That sounds really interesting actually. I've had this one on my shelf for years, and I don't know why I've never picked it up. It's always been like, "Oh, maybe I'll read this one summer. It seems summery." But I kind of forgot that all of that went into it. You know, when I first picked it up and I read about it, it seemed interesting to me for whatever reason, but I sort of forgot all of those elements were in there. So definitely sounds interesting to me.

Anne Bogel [00:32:02] Okay. I'm glad. Okay. We're just going to continue in Italy. And Corin, I have a book for you that in some ways does not feel like a fit for what you're looking for. But the sense of nostalgia is so powerful in this book that I just want to put it on your radar. Because even though we can learn a lot from someone's reading life from three books they love and one book they don't, that they're reading now, and what they say they've enjoyed, there's room for wildcards. And this could be one for you.

It's a recent book, which is another reason that I'm hesitating, but it is Rebecca Serle's One Italian Summer. Is this a book that you know?

Corin Cook [00:32:33] I have seen that. I've definitely seen the cover of it in the bookstore, but I'm not super familiar with what it's about.

Anne Bogel [00:32:39] Well, in some ways I feel like this seems frothier than you would be drawn to. But let me tell you about it. I think you also mentioned listening to an audiobook. This is read by Lauren Graham of the Gilmore Girls. Perhaps that would be of interest to you.

Corin Cook [00:32:54] Gilmore Girls was my all-time favorite show, so I'm down to support Lauren Graham.

Anne Bogel [00:32:59] The epigraph of this story is actually from Gilmore Girls, which could be really fun. This is about a twentysomething young woman named Katy and her mom, when the story opens, has just died of cancer. And her mom was everything to her. She was her best friend and she just has no idea what she is going to do next.

And something else she learns in the story is that she and her mother had planned to take a trip together to the Amalfi Coast. But when her mother died, they can't take that trip. But Katy decides to pay homage to her mother and also for her own emotional well-being, she has to take this trip. So she goes to Positano and she checks into this charming hotel where she knows her mother had been many years before and I believe it's the hotel where they were planning to stay together.

What happens is Katy comes down to breakfast one morning and her mother is sitting at the breakfast table. I might be getting the details, that touch wrong. But her mother is there in the hotel. But it's not her mother that she knew. It's her mother when she was Katy's age 30 years before. But she isn't yet Katy's mother and she doesn't know Katy because, of course, they haven't met because Katy hasn't happened yet.

So she gets to know her mother as a friend and a person, and she sees her at this stage in her life. And it's whimsical and of course strange because, you know, this is magical. This cannot happen. And with this setup, Katy is able to explore who her mother was long ago.

And you mentioned specifically feeling this sense of nostalgia for places you have never been. And it's that mood, that atmosphere that's so palpable in this book that makes me think, even though on the surface, ah, this is a little, you know, plotty, this is a little... I don't know that a glittery cover is going to stand out to you in the bookstore, Corin, but it's touching and tender and it does have that air about it. And I wonder if it might be worth taking a chance on.

Corin Cook [00:34:53] Yeah, that actually sounds interesting to me, you know, for other reasons. You mentioned the nostalgia. This sort of speaks to me because I lost my father to cancer when I was ten.

Anne Bogel [00:35:03] Oh, I'm so sorry.

Corin Cook [00:35:04] Thank you. I often feel like, you know, I was so young when it happened. But knowing the person I am now, I feel like I see so many similarities in myself to who he was when he was younger and who he was when I knew him. But I never got to the age to articulate, like, "Check out this new music I found. I know you're going to love it. Check out this movie."

And I feel like there could have been so much that we enjoyed together, sort of like you're talking about this character, knowing that she was going to enjoy this trip with her mom but didn't get to. So that sort of speaks to me. I don't usually tend to gear toward books that have an unrealistic element like you mentioned but I think that would be really interesting to read about an adult daughter speaking with her mom who was younger at the time.

Anne Bogel [00:35:47] I think it could be. I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Corin Cook [00:35:50] Awesome.

Anne Bogel [00:35:51] Okay, I've got a couple more, but we're going to make them quick. Because of your love for films and specifically Fellini films, I want to throw in... I think, I already used the word wild card but we have another one for you. And that is a less well-known Italian novel called Conversations in Sicily by Elio Vittorini. Is this a book you know?

Corin Cook [00:36:10] No, I've never heard of it.

Anne Bogel [00:36:11] Not sad about that. You can find an edition with a foreword by someone you have heard of, Hemingway, if you'd like. This book was also much praised by Calvino back in the day. This does not have vacation vibes. This is a political novel. It's often interpreted as anti-fascist.

It was written while Mussolini was in power in 37 and the author was actually later imprisoned for his anti-fascist work and writings. It's got a strong anti-war sentiment about it. But Italy. This is about an Italian man named Sylvester, who's been living in Milan for years but he's experiencing a profound depression and really questioning the goodness of humanity as he's trying to make sense of life while witnessing a brutal war unfolding in his home country.

And unsure of what to do, he decides on a whim to get a train ticket to go home, to take the train down to his native Sicily so he can visit his mother on what I believe is her birthday. And on this trip he bumps into all sorts of characters, some of which we just talked about the real and not real, some of which don't seem to be entirely real, but all of whom remind him of some key element of his youth.

And his journey, his road trip, Corin finally takes him to his mother's home, which seems to have changed all from his boyhood, and they connect. And the story goes on with just lush and vivid descriptions of Italy throughout, strong sense of nostalgia, one that asks big questions and has a lot of feelings. They're not extended vacation vibes, but it is so thoroughly grounded in place. And what a place for you. How does that sound?

Corin Cook [00:37:53] That sounds perfect, actually. You know, I do love the idea of the vacation vibe for the summer, but I definitely want to mix other stuff in it. And that book in general just sounds right up my alley. So that one, I think, really makes sense for me.

Anne Bogel [00:38:07] Well, I am glad to hear that. We already mentioned Hemingway. If you have not yet read A Moveable Feast, I really think this belongs on your list. What is your relationship with this book?

Corin Cook [00:38:17] Yeah, I have not read it. I'm sort of familiar with it, but I've never picked it up.

Anne Bogel [00:38:21] Okay, well, this is a memoir where truly the best part might be the setting. It's in 1920s Paris, and it unfolds in a series of just brief sketches when Hemingway is seriously indulging in that nostalgia, remembering what it was like to be a young, struggling artist in Paris during that time. And he talks about being surrounded by a host of literary greats, like Gertrude Stein, Scott Fitzgerald, Sylvia Beach, Ezra Pound. I mean, it goes on from there. But the prose is so spare and precise, and yet with the small quantity of words he's able to paint such vivid portraits, you kind of feel like you're sitting at a sidewalk cafe.

Corin Cook [00:39:01] That sounds lovely.

Anne Bogel [00:39:03] I feel like that's an easy one for you.

Corin Cook [00:39:04] Yeah, yeah. That definitely fits.

Anne Bogel [00:39:08] You talked about Leave Her to Heaven and the character who is so unlikable you almost admire her.

Corin Cook [00:39:12] Yeah.

Anne Bogel [00:39:13] If you have not read The Talented Mr. Ripley by Patricia Highsmith, that one belongs on your list.

Corin Cook [00:39:18] Oh, okay, cool.

Anne Bogel [00:39:20] And then we are going to close with one... It does take place in England. This is not the purpose of the book. It's not about the atmosphere. But I think it has a lot of the same emotional vibes as the Before trilogy you love. We've talked about this book recently on the podcast, so I will keep it short. But this is Talking at Night, a June debut from Claire Daverley. So this is a brand new book, not what you would usually pick up. But that's why I just want to call it out.

But it's the story of Will and Rosie, who meet when they're teenagers. They would be, I think, in their final year of secondary school. I do not speak British school system despite all the books I've read set in that world. But they're total opposites. Like she's the good girl, he's the bad boy. Everybody knows they're all wrong for each other. But they're at a campfire for school and they just end up sitting on the same log talking and just really, truly feel a connection that they didn't know like, could exist with another person.

But it's not smooth sailing and they keep being driven apart by terrible things and coming back together. The story unfolds over decades. And they deal with a lot of stuff, navigating a lot of regular stuff of growing up and regular things that people deal with in life, and a lot of really hard things that people don't often deal with in life or you wish they didn't have to. They do take a couple of trips in this book to places that are very scenic, and I think you would happily read entire novels about. But that's not what you're signing on for with this book. But I just wanted to whisper it in your direction in case that felt like part of something you would enjoy in your summer reading.

Corin Cook [00:40:47] Yeah, that definitely sounds really intriguing. I can see the elements that are similar to the Before trilogy in that for sure.

Anne Bogel [00:40:55] Okay. Corin, we talked about a lot of books today, but you have a whole summer of reading, so I wanted to make sure that you felt stocks and that you had options. And I also hope that by trying a couple of books you'll get a better sense for what you do want to explore reading next. Because you have more books on your list that you've already been kind of eyeing. So I hope your reading experience with these books gives you a better feel for what from that list you will enjoy reading next. I mean, how are you feeling about all that now? How are you feeling about choosing for your summer reading adventure?

Corin Cook [00:41:23] Excited. Also, I hope I can kind of narrow in what I'm looking for more so because my list is growing and I don't know if I have a long enough summer to read these all.

Anne Bogel [00:41:33] Well, summer happens every year.

Corin Cook [00:41:35] It's true. It is true.

Anne Bogel [00:41:36] And it's nice to have something to look forward to.

Corin Cook [00:41:38] For sure.

Anne Bogel [00:41:38] Okay, Corin, here's the long list of books we talked about today. Call Me By Your Name by André Aciman, Beautiful Ruins by Jess Walter, One Italian Summer by Rebecca Serle, Conversations in Sicily by Elio Vittorini,—I'm just noticing that's the same name as the protagonist in the Aciman—A Moveable Feast by Ernest Hemingway, The Talented Mr. Ripley By Patricia Highsmith and Talking at Night by Claire Daverley. So of those books, what do you think you'll start next?

Corin Cook [00:42:09] I'm thinking because I already have it, I might dive into Call Me By Your Name because you really sold me on that one even further than I already was. But definitely also A Moveable Feast really stuck out as one that I must add to that list.

Anne Bogel [00:42:21] I'm so happy to hear it. Corin, I think it's going to be a wonderful summer.

Corin Cook [00:42:25] Me too.

Anne Bogel [00:42:26] I'm so glad.

Corin Cook [00:42:27] Thanks for helping me.

Anne Bogel [00:42:28] Well, thank you for talking books with me today. It was a pleasure.

Corin Cook [00:42:32] Thank you so much.

Anne Bogel [00:42:37] Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Corin and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find Corin on Instagram and Good Reads @Corincook and find the full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.

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Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by Will Bogel, Holly Wielkoszewski, and Studio D Podcast Productions. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.