A high-stakes family reading competition

Anne Bogel [00:00:08] Hey, readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader. What should I read next? We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

[00:00:39] Readers, if you haven't picked up bookish gifts for everyone on your list just yet, you've still got time. Share the gift of reading with presents you won't have to pack and ship like a membership to our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club. With options for monthly, quarterly or annual memberships, a Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club membership gives the gift of a better reading life through community classes and conversation. Plus, it's something you can do together, keeping you connected to your friends or loved ones throughout the year. Purchase a gift membership for your favorite reader at Modernmrsdarcy.com/shop.

[00:01:10] Readers, when I met Courtney Haggerty in a Modern Mrs. Darcy meet up earlier this year, I was agape at her story of her family's annual high stakes reading competition. Today, she's joining me on the show to talk all about it. Courtney is a sports aficionado, Disney World superfan and third grade teacher in Louisville, Kentucky. She reads multiple books at all times, even when waiting in line at Disney and turns to the words on the page for entertainment, for general mental health, and sometimes as a coping mechanism when her favorite sports team is in a tough spot. Thrillers and mysteries are Courtney's go to genres, and she also enjoys long books that make her feel like she has really accomplished something when she's done with them. Looking ahead to the New Year, she's interested in branching out into more nonfiction, historical fiction and family dramas. What Courtney needs today is a solid foundation for her 2023 reading list, so she can start the year off right and maybe get a jump on her family's fierce literary competition. I hope to give Courtney some recommendations to build a base for the year to come and equip her with some promising picks that she will enjoy reading while she moves up that reading contest leaderboard. Let's get to it. Courtney, welcome to the show.

Courtney Haggerty [00:02:16] Hello. Thank you for having me.

Anne Bogel [00:02:18] Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks so much for hopping on. Now we got to meet I think it was during the Modern Mrs. Darcy readers weekend; is that right?

Courtney Haggerty [00:02:26] Yes. We had a meet up here in Louisville.

Anne Bogel [00:02:29] Where we both live, but had never connected before. And so we got to Heine brothers and to the bookstore and take a bunch of photos and talk about books, including your family's literary competition.

Courtney Haggerty [00:02:39] Yes. Our favorite thing to do in our family is read.

Anne Bogel [00:02:44] Now, first of all, tell me about being a third grade teacher.

Courtney Haggerty [00:02:47] It's great. In third grade we're kind of building a love for reading. Hopefully they have built that foundation of reading already, so it's just really putting those right books in their hands, too, to make them really love to read.

Anne Bogel [00:03:02] Yeah. What do you wish every adult knew who has a child in their life that they are interested in seeing fall in love with books and reading? Like, what do you wish you could tell them? What do you tell them sometimes?

Courtney Haggerty [00:03:13] I just say let them read what they want to read. Don't put parameters around it. If they are a very excellent reader, if they want to read a picture book and they're a little older for it, let them read it. It does not matter what they read, just that they are reading.

Anne Bogel [00:03:34] Yeah. Is that what you tell your nieces and nephews?

Courtney Haggerty [00:03:37] Absolutely.

Anne Bogel [00:03:38] I think you mentioned that you were like the fun book aunt in your family.

Courtney Haggerty [00:03:42] Oh, yes!

Anne Bogel [00:03:43] Well, they are lucky to have you. So, Courtney, how would you describe your reading life at this point in the year?

Courtney Haggerty [00:03:49] Well, I think right now when I'm in the middle of a school year, my reading takes a little bit of a slowdown just because I don't have that much time. And it's really hard after a hard day of work to relax and to focus on a book. So that's kind of where I am right now. When we've got school breaks, I'm able to really focus and all I do is read and do things. But when I'm in the school year, I have so much more to think about than just that book. My mind is always on so many things. So right now it's slowed down, but I'm still in the middle of several great books.

Anne Bogel [00:04:35] We're going to hear about that. Now, I don't remember what we were talking about at Heine Brothers when the talk turned to intense reading practices in people's lives and in people's families. Do you remember how we got there?

Courtney Haggerty [00:04:49] I don't. I think I always like to bring up our family reading contest. When I interviewed to be a part of the education program at my university that I went to, I brought up that reading contest. It's just like, "Hello, my name is Courtney and this is what my family does." Like, we all kind of do that. It's just kind of a great conversation starter.

Anne Bogel [00:05:16] So how long has this family reading contest been part of your life?

Courtney Haggerty [00:05:20] Well, let me look, I have my binder that we put all of our titles in. We started in 2005, so I was in high school. I actually had to ask my grandmother. My grandmother started it. She is a retired school librarian. And I actually called her last night to figure out, really, why did we start this? Because we were all readers, really. I've been a reader forever. So what it started with was that my aunt claimed that she read over 50 books a year and my uncle was like, oh, there's no way you do that. She's like, I would do it. Absolutely. My grandmother overheard it and so she just decided that we were going to track our reading. And so at Christmas in 2004 she gave everyone in the family we call it our handy dandy notebook. It's a miniature binder. And she told us that you are to write the title, a brief synopsis and how many pages? And she said that next Christmas in 2005 at Christmas, whoever read the most books would get a dollar per book. So we have been doing that for, well, I guess this is 17 years now. And it's a family tradition-- it really is.

Anne Bogel [00:06:54] That is amazing. Okay. So looking back, how has it shaped your reading life?

Courtney Haggerty [00:06:59] Well, it's really interesting when I look back because I was 15 when we started. So back then-- and I have like the list from every year-- I did really well when I was in high school. And then when I went to college, it really kind of slowed down. I think there are a lot of other things to do when in college. And then once I graduated college and started my career, it got back to being a lot more. And I see years where school was a little tougher, like my first year teaching where I didn't read much. Whereas, I'm a pretty veteran teacher now that I'm able to kind of do work and then read and balance those together.

Anne Bogel [00:07:45] Give me a feel for how many family members are participating in this contest every year.

Courtney Haggerty [00:07:49] It's really a race of 3 to 4 of us every year. My aunt, my mom and my brother and I. My brother has a master's in English literature. So he's a huge reader. My mom and my aunt and I. It's kind of between the four of us at the moment. But I have little cousins now. They were two and not born yet when we started. And so later on my grandmother let them join the contest and they got a quarter a book, regardless if they won the contest or not. I never got that chance, which I'm still a little bitter. My brother and I are 10 and 14 years older than my oldest cousin, so they had that division. And now that my youngest cousin is 15 and so she is now in the adult division because we started when I was 15. So it could be a different competition this year because my cousin Kate is a huge reader. She actually won the Bookworm Award for her freshman class last year, so it could be a tough competition this year.

Anne Bogel [00:09:01] Wow. Okay, so grandma was a librarian.

Courtney Haggerty [00:09:04] Yes.

Anne Bogel [00:09:05] I feel like I've spoken so much on this podcast about quality over quantity that I just have to acknowledge this is a quantity based competition, and yet it doesn't feel like that's doing anybody any harm.

Courtney Haggerty [00:09:17] No, I was thinking about that. I've been talking to my family about that because I know that's something that you talk about. And, for us, we would read regardless if we were doing this contest or not. And we read quality literature. We don't just read short books to get our numbers up. We read the books that we want to read. And if we don't win that year, that's okay because we had good books we read anyway.

Anne Bogel [00:09:45] Yeah. It sounds like grandma knew this would really bolster enthusiasm for reading and also for this locus for the family to connect around.

Courtney Haggerty [00:09:53] Absolutely. And it's been pretty competitive. It's fun every Christmas Eve to just hear about what we've read. And for a while we were all reading some of the same books. So what's been fun lately is that my mom and I are now able to share books together, and my grandmother and I are going to start buddy reading the new Demon Copperhead book together. So we read and talk about books all the time. That's our number one conversation starter.

Anne Bogel [00:10:33] Do you all review each other's handy dandy notebooks at the end of the year?

Courtney Haggerty [00:10:36] Well, no. We used to. The first few years gran made sure we had to have that synopsis. But now that we've done it so long, we don't have to do the synopsis anymore. It's just a list of the books now.

Anne Bogel [00:10:57] Courtney, tell me about the year that you won.

Courtney Haggerty [00:11:00] Oh, it was last year.

Anne Bogel [00:11:06] You didn't say that at Heine Brothers.

Courtney Haggerty [00:11:08] Yeah, it was just last year.

Anne Bogel [00:11:10] I'm impressed you didn't just gloat.

Courtney Haggerty [00:11:15] I had 75 and I think it helped that I was home a lot more. We were teaching from home. We didn't go back into the classroom till March last year, so I could read a lot more. But I was not with my family for Christmas last year. I was away. And so I had to call in my number. And so I got a little sandwich bag of ones. I've never been so excited. I had never won before. That was my best year, I think.

Anne Bogel [00:11:53] I hope your family rejoiced at your accomplishment.

Courtney Haggerty [00:11:57] Well, I think they were a little irritated that they lost.

Anne Bogel [00:12:01] Hey, you told us it was intense.

Courtney Haggerty [00:12:03] Yeah, it is. It is intense. I think that was my best number. This year I'm getting close to that number.

Anne Bogel [00:12:13] Any hope for a repeat?

Courtney Haggerty [00:12:15] Oh, absolutely not. Somebody has far exceeded the number. I will not reveal the certain number because they might listen. But let's just say we have got somebody in the triple digits.

Anne Bogel [00:12:30] I'm just sitting here smiling at your family competition. That sounds like such a fun way to make reading, which can be a solitary activity, into this really fun communal activity. Like that sounds like a blast. Courtney, any final thoughts that you would share with those who are intrigued by this idea?

Courtney Haggerty [00:12:48] I would just say make it your own, too. We are a different kind of family with this, but you can do it any way you want to. If you don't want to do money, you could always-- I'm always kind of sad that we didn't do a family baking contest where the winner gets to write their name on a spatula. I'm kind of sad we didn't have, like, a trophy or something. That's something I think would be fun to pass something to every year. I'm sad we didn't do that. That's my one regret with this.

Anne Bogel [00:13:23] So looking ahead to 2023-- so 2022 this is not your year for the competition, maybe 2023 will be. But I know no matter what you want good books to read and we want to get you set up for the year ahead.

Courtney Haggerty [00:13:36] Sounds good.

Anne Bogel [00:13:37] So what I love to do is hear about the books you loved and don't and then just add a few titles to your list that may give you a good start for 2023.

Courtney Haggerty [00:13:45] Yeah, I'm excited.

Anne Bogel [00:13:48] Okay. Courtney, how did you choose your favorites?

Courtney Haggerty [00:13:50] Well, I have. It's hard for me to pick my favorites because I feel like every time I read a book and I enjoyed it, I'm like, well, that's my favorite. So I picked ones that really stayed with me through since I've read them, I've finished these. It's been a while since I've finished some of these and they're still with me, so that's why I picked them.

Anne Bogel [00:14:15] I love it. That's a great way to pick. Let's jump in. Tell me about the first book you loved.

Courtney Haggerty [00:14:21] Sure. The first book I picked was Bear Town by Fredrik Backman. This book it just hit me in all the different feelings. It had the sports component, which I love, but it also was a true look at a town. And I love that. I love this small town dynamics. Living in Louisville, it's a big city, but it's still small town in ways. So I really enjoyed that and it really stuck with me.

Anne Bogel [00:14:52] Can I tell you that's what my grandma always said when I was growing up. She'd say, "It looks like a big city, but if you do anything terrible I will hear about it in 7 minutes." Actually she told me that as a warning.

Courtney Haggerty [00:15:07] I grew up in Lexington, so it was the same thing in Lexington, too.

Anne Bogel [00:15:11] So reading about this small town with a totally different experience than the one you have had in your life was really part of the attraction here?

Courtney Haggerty [00:15:20] Right. And now I have to admit, I haven't read the rest of the books yet in the series. I'm so behind on current reads like that. And I'm one of those that I don't want things that I love to end. So some of my favorite shows I still haven't watched the series finale because I don't want it to be over, so I'm taking it pretty slow.

Anne Bogel [00:15:48] I really admire that. And you are far from alone. There are so many who save that last book because they don't want to live in a world in which they don't have any more, for example, Frederick Borgman books to read. I might be the opposite. I just gobble them up greedily and then I'm sad there's nothing more awaiting me, but I wouldn't have it any other way. There's room for all of us in the reading life.

Courtney Haggerty [00:16:08] Yes.

Anne Bogel [00:16:08] And that last one was 700 something pages.

Courtney Haggerty [00:16:11] I know. It's on my shelf. I'm just not ready yet.

Anne Bogel [00:16:17] There are multiple ways in which you have a lot to look forward to.

Courtney Haggerty [00:16:19] Yes.

Anne Bogel [00:16:21] Okay. That's Bear by Frederick Bachman. Tell me about another book that has really stuck with you.

Courtney Haggerty [00:16:25] My next one is I'll Be Gone In the Dark by Michelle McNamara. This was an investigative, journalistic look at the Golden State killer, and I thoroughly enjoyed this. I love a true crime show, but I really enjoy a true crime book, even though I am the biggest scaredy cat around. The true crime does not bother me. I wanted to be a lawyer for a long time, and so that kind of intrigues me. And I love a journalistic look in a book. I love that kind of point of view. I don't know what it is about that, but I love a good investigation.

Anne Bogel [00:17:07] I have been scared about this book. So how long ago did you read this?

Courtney Haggerty [00:17:11] Actually, I just read it this summer. I finished it on my plane ride back from Boston in June.

Anne Bogel [00:17:18] So that has been a while now. So now, as you look back, what are the parts of the book that's still l run through your mind at times?

Courtney Haggerty [00:17:26] I think it was the way that it became personal for the author and how she spoke about the victims and those who were affected by this. It made them feel like real people. And I think in some true crime, it can be so far removed-- you can feel really removed. But they just seemed like regular people and you felt how they felt. And I thought it was a really good book and really interesting. I like to hear all the procedural parts of investigations and things.

Anne Bogel [00:18:07] Is that true in fiction and nonfiction?

Courtney Haggerty [00:18:09] Oh, yes. I love a good procedural in fiction and nonfiction. Absolutely.

Anne Bogel [00:18:15] Okay. I'll remember that. Courtney, what did you choose to complete your favorites list?

Courtney Haggerty [00:18:20] So the last one I picked was Girls with Bright Futures by Tracy Dobmeier and Wendy Katzman. And this was a fiction telling of the college admissions scandal. And I went on a bit of a theme a couple of months ago and I read three books on this topic. And this one, though, was a little different. It was basically showing how intense the parents get their children to achieve their dreams for them-- not necessarily the child's dream, but what they want for their child. And so I thought it was really interesting. I'm quite a bit past college, but to watch my cousins go through the college process and things and see how they have to be independent and make their own choices. But in this book it was the total opposite. The parents were were doing some really downright awful things to get them into schools.

Anne Bogel [00:19:24] This is a thriller, isn't it? This is the one I've read yet.

Courtney Haggerty [00:19:27] Yes, it is.

Anne Bogel [00:19:29] I believe it's really suspenseful.

Courtney Haggerty [00:19:31] Yes, it is.

Anne Bogel [00:19:32] It think it portrays people making really questionable choices.

Courtney Haggerty [00:19:37] Absolutely. And I think I am a real rule follower and breaking rules really gives me anxiety. So, for me, I think that's why I like reading those kind of books too because I'm like, well, I'll never do that. So it's so perfect to me that I'm like, it's just so intriguing to me because I'm like, well, that is so far beyond what my real life is. Yeah, it was very questionable, lots of questionable decisions.

Anne Bogel [00:20:08] Okay. So in reading fiction you can see how some people grew up in tiny Swedish villages and how some people bend, maybe break the rules, and both are just like, huh? And totally voyeuristic how might people choose to live.

Courtney Haggerty [00:20:21] Right.

Anne Bogel [00:20:22] Courtney, tell me about a book that didn't feel right for you.

Courtney Haggerty [00:20:26] The one that did not work for me was Normal People by Sally Rooney. And truth be told, any Sally Rooney book does not work for me. I'm probably in the minority here, but I just feel like nothing happens. I just feel like there's just no real drama. It doesn't keep my attention.

Anne Bogel [00:20:50] Courtney, so many people are yelling, I know, at their car speakers right now. People have loved Sally Rooney on the podcast before and people have said this work is absolutely not for me and that is all fine, but we want to hear why it doesn't work for you. She loses some people because they just can't do it with her lack of punctuation marks.

Courtney Haggerty [00:21:08] Well, I don't think it's the punctuation thing for me because I teach third grade. I don't see punctuation marks in writing. I'll be honest. That's a real struggle for my kids. It was just boring. I don't know what it was. I just didn't see the point. I was just like, okay, well, that was fine. It was just not exciting. I don't know why it doesn't work for me because they say she's like the author for millennials, and I am quite a millennial. I mean, my age is right there. I'm a bit of an old soul, and maybe that's why it just does not-- and I've read more than that one of hers. I've read Conversation with Friends too, and I just had the same feeling. I just didn't really see the point.

Anne Bogel [00:22:04] Well, even among millennials there are still readers who love character driven books and still others who love a plot driven novel. People read for different reasons. And her books are very interior. I'm wondering if that is a factor in that not work for you.

Courtney Haggerty [00:22:19] It could be. And I like a character driven, I think. I go back and forth I think, oh, maybe I like character driven. And then I'm like, no, maybe I'm plot driven. I like anything that really holds my attention and it just doesn't work for me. And I have yet to read her newest one because I'm just like, well, I'm not going to like it probably.

Anne Bogel [00:22:42] Okay I'm thinking about Normal People, which I read for the first time not that long ago. And I'm just thinking about how much of the plot in Normal People is about characters not taking action. It's about them not doing their thing, but you know as the reader they're supposed to do. Like that would be the right thing to do for the relationship, for themselves, and they don't do it. And that is the story, that they didn't do the thing that needed to be done. But it sounds like it's not that you were frustrated that they didn't take action, you were just like, come on, can something please happen already?

Courtney Haggerty [00:23:16] Yes. That is exactly kind of how I felt. Yes. Like, let's get something going. Come on.

Anne Bogel [00:23:25] So a story about the devastations of inaction is just not going to be your thing because nothing happens. That's the point.

Courtney Haggerty [00:23:33] Right. Or let them make that decision and then let's see the fallout from it or the consequences. I don't mind seeing that. I just felt bored by those books.

Anne Bogel [00:23:46] Courtney, what have you been reading lately?

Courtney Haggerty [00:23:50] I just finished Bad City by Paul Pringle.

Anne Bogel [00:23:53] Oh, I don't know this one.

Courtney Haggerty [00:23:55] It has a longer title. Paul Pringle is a journalist in Los Angeles. And it was about how there was quite a scandal with the University of Southern California. Again, another campus setting where some bad things really happened with the dean of the medical school and how the university covered it up. And it had multiple scandals in it, which I find fascinating. Again, that investigative journalism type of of novel is something that I really enjoy. I think it just takes me out of my boring life and it gives me a little excitement, but I really enjoyed it. That was my last read. I finished that in line for the ride the Disneyworld [Inaudible].

Anne Bogel [00:24:57] Was anybody else reading in line?

Courtney Haggerty [00:24:59] No. I've not seen many people read in line, to be honest. But it doesn't bother me. It keeps the line going. I go by myself, so I don't really have anyone to talk to. So it's a perfect time for me to read.

Anne Bogel [00:25:15] I love that you're able to do that. Courtney, what are you looking for in your reading life right now?

Courtney Haggerty [00:25:19] I would love some books that really take me away. I love a novel or a book where I can go to a different place. I think that's with Bear Town. I've never been to Sweden. It's somewhere where it's so different from where where I live now. And I love a good escape.

Anne Bogel [00:25:44] I see that in the books you enjoy. Are you still on the hunt for more historical fiction and family dramas and maybe nonfiction for the year ahead?

Courtney Haggerty [00:25:52] Absolutely. I love a good historical fiction. I am a big history nerd. I love the History Channel and I love anything history. I love a good dual timeline of historical fiction. That's a big conversation in our family. I'm the only one that really enjoys the dual timeline.

Anne Bogel [00:26:15] I love that you know that about your family members, because most people wouldn't be able to say that about their parents and aunts and uncles and cousins.

Courtney Haggerty [00:26:24] Yeah. When my aunt comes and I have my bookshelves are stacked full and every time she comes, she looks for one and she'll be, like, "Is it dual timeline?" And I'm like, yes. She's like, "Nope, not going to do it." It's a known thing. If I recommend a book and it's dual timeline, they don't usually like it. But I love a dual timeline.

Anne Bogel [00:26:47] Which means that you need to get recommendations from those other than your family members.

Courtney Haggerty [00:26:52] Right.

Anne Bogel [00:26:52] Okay. Courtney, tell me a little bit more about what you'd like to be reading, because I know that you told me that you often read a lot of new books, but you read them on about a six month delay by the time you see them out there in media and then get them from the library. Is this a rhythm you like? Are you looking to read more or more new? All that.

Courtney Haggerty [00:27:13] My family likes to call me a book collector, but I'm not a book collector in the sense of I collect the same book or classics. No. I like to go to bookstores every week. They know me at Carmichael's. Now I go every Sunday morning and I pick a couple of books every week. But do I read them when I get them? No, I have stacks upon stacks everywhere. But I'm still reading those on Libby, so I get behind on my reading. So it doesn't matter to me when I read them. I just feel like I'm always behind the current trends.

Anne Bogel [00:27:52] And that doesn't bother you? It's fine. You just want good books to read.

Courtney Haggerty [00:27:55] Exactly. Yeah. I love being surrounded by books, whether I've read them or not, I guess.

Anne Bogel [00:28:03] I bet they love you at Carmichael's. Listeners, that is our local independent bookstore here in Louisville.

Courtney Haggerty [00:28:09] They do. And they know I'm a teacher now. So every Sunday morning they're like how was your week at school? It was fine.

Anne Bogel [00:28:19] It's so kind. I love to hear it. So Courtney, you're interested in reading more nonfiction family dramas and historical fiction. You especially love a book with a dual timeline. We've talked about how you want something to happen in your stories. You may like character driven books, but you want some action as well. And I'm just really remembering how you went on that college admissions campus novel spree and really enjoyed it. And you love investigative journalism and procedurals, whether that procedural aspect is incorporated into fiction or nonfiction. And we want to find you some good books to set you up for success in this cutthroat family reading competition in 2023. Although you're happy when you're reading books you enjoy no matter what, it doesn't matter if you take home the cash at the end of the year.

Courtney Haggerty [00:29:04] Absolutely.

Anne Bogel [00:29:04] Which is a great place to be. Okay. That being said, can we start you with a really short one that you get an easy entry into your notebook. Okay. So there's a little novella, maybe even a short story length book by Claire Keegan. She wrote Small Things like These last year. And this is just pure speculation on my part, that based on that success and the award nominations it received that's why the same publisher has put out this new book. It's called Foster, and it came out this fall. It'll be at Carmichaels right now. They'll have it for you on the shelf.

Courtney Haggerty [00:29:38] I have seen it. Yeah.

Anne Bogel [00:29:39] Yeah, it is really pretty. So have you read it?

Courtney Haggerty [00:29:41] I have not, but I've heard it's wonderful.

Anne Bogel [00:29:45] I'm so glad to hear. I haven't seen it anywhere, but I'm so glad to hear that. So this is very short. It comes in at less than 100 pages, even though the format is small and the text is kind of big. But it really packs a punch. This book takes you on an emotional journey even though there's not a lot of space to work with. I want to call this historical fiction, but I'm not sure that it is. The time period is never clearly stated. At first it felt like it happened a long time ago to me in rural Ireland because there's a chamber pot in a room and some of the things happening in the kitchen made me think like, oh, this is old. But then we find out that the family watches the television news every night. So I'm like, oh, well, this isn't as old as I was thinking it might be. I may have to read again and do some deep investigation and see, like, are there any references I missed that would let me know? Like, Clare Keegan, could you just tell us when this is set? It doesn't matter to the story. I'm just curious as a reader. But this little book begins with an anxious child, a young girl. And again, it's never stated how old she is. I'm picturing in the neighborhood of like 8 to 10 years old, but her father is taking her to leave with, I believe, her mother's relatives that she has zero familiarity with. She doesn't greet them by name. She doesn't run up and hug them. You don't get the impression they've seen her before. But you find out that her mother is expecting another child and the family is taxed, and the family is really struggling financially and everybody is exhausted and not getting the work done. And this couple has agreed to foster her (and no, I didn't understand the meaning of the title until until I realized, oh, that's what this book is actually about) to lighten the load until her mother has the baby and recovers a little bit from childbirth. And this book, Courtney, stuff happens in this book. It's narrated from the child's perspective. But this is not like one of those precocious children's stories. She's narrating her experience, and so she has this naivety that lets you see things with the innocence of a child. But she's also very emotionally astute. She notices immediately, like, this couple that I'm living with, something sad has happened here. But also this is a house that's free and easy. And there's discussion about secrecy and shame and the line between and how this new family she's living with. Like, there is no shame here. It unfolds over the course of one hot summer where the girl talks about being a little bit out of time. Like where I am right now, I can't be what I've been before, but I'm not going to be here long enough to turn into what I could be. And I don't want to tell you how it ends or the discoveries that are made along the way. But this is a journey that happens in a small space, and I think you'll be glad that you chose to take it. How does that sound?

Courtney Haggerty [00:32:38] That sounds great.

Anne Bogel [00:32:40] Okay. I also want to tell you and everyone, this is a small format book that I read it in two short sittings and it was wonderful. But you could read it in the time it takes you to drink a cup of coffee if you don't just, like, pour it back. But this is small format, and it's the perfect size for like a gift exchange or a small token. Or if you want to read something by the fire on a chilly evening, it could be really nice for any of those things. Okay. That's Foster by Claire Keegan. I want to slide in a book to your college admissions. I'm picturing this little like nook on your bookshelf where you have the stack of books that's going to get bigger. This book is not about a scandal exactly, but it touches on that. And I didn't mention that I have a high school senior, so I have been living that college admissions life; although, I can see how parents can become deeply invested in that. I might have thought the books along those lines are too close to home for me right now. I'm living it. I do not need to read anything else about it. But then accidentally I picked up this book that's not coming out until February-- I think it comes out February 14th-- and I wanted to read it because it's from the tiny reparations imprint at Dutton. And forgive me everyone if this sounds super nerdy, but publishers have their own personalities and I found that I really like the personality of this new publisher.

[00:34:06] This is Phoebe Robinson's imprint at Dutton. And this imprint they say it's highly curated. There's only a half dozen books out right now. And they publish literary fiction and nonfiction and essay collections. And their goal is to highlight and amplify unique and diverse voices and to publish books that not only reflect the current conversation, but also push it forward. And that is mostly tiny reparations, direct wording there. And I've really enjoyed their books and this new one, it became available to me and I knew I wanted to read it. So I just thought, why not now? And then I found out on like the fourth page that the protagonist as a job helps high school seniors get into college, mostly by helping them write their college admissions essays. And I thought, what universe? Are you kidding me? But apparently the universe wanted me to be able to tell you about this on this timeline. So it's called Gone Like Yesterday by Janelle Williams. And it is the story of Zara. She's in her early thirties and she is a college prep coach and she talks throughout the book about how people don't understand what it is that she does unless they are very much in that world or know someone who has been. But she lives in New York, she moved there from Atlanta. And what she does is help mostly rich white kids (Zara is black) get into college. And these are the parents out of girls with bright futures who are just like stomping on the ethics of how everything should work here. But Zara doesn't really admire them either. She's just not really relishing helping these kids get into the Ivy League. She's not finding a lot of joy and purpose in it. But at the very beginning of the book, she takes an Uber ride that kind of changes her life. So two things. This Uber driver connects her to her niece, who is a black high school senior who goes to a white super competitive prep school. And she wants to get into Stanford.

[00:35:51] But this family is not able to pay a college prep coach like herself. She works for 75 bucks an hour to help writer essay and she volunteers. You can see her in the text not saying out loud to this family, but to herself, why did you do that? Like, why would you offer to help this girl for free? What are you thinking? But one of the reasons she does it is when she is in the backseat of this Uber car, she sees a cluster of gypsy moths in the car and they're singing songs to her. And what you find out is that she has always been followed by gypsy moths, and they are always messing with her, and they've been at it since she was a kid. And they're fluttering around and they're always singing songs, but nobody else can hear the songs. And so I was, like, this is very interesting. Where is this going to go? So Courtney, this is a book about a college admissions prep coach who connects with this young girl, this high school senior, who also has a bit of the dreamer and a bit of the magic about her. And when Zara's brother disappears back in Atlanta, they go on a journey together with the Uber driver as well, because he's got a car, obviously, to take them from New York to Atlanta and they learn the story of the moths and the story of their respective families in ways that are deeply transformative. And it is definitely magical. Like those moths matter a lot. I notice the flap copy of the book tells you what the moths represent. Readers. I don't know if you want to know what the moths represent because it's not revealed till pretty late in the book. You might just want to discover this on that journey yourself. But Courtney, how is this sounding to you?

Courtney Haggerty [00:37:21] That sounds fantastic. I wish it were out already.

Anne Bogel [00:37:24] I wish it were, too. I wish you could go to Carmichael's and get it this weekend. But I know that you have plenty to read, so I'm not too worried about that. Okay. I thought maybe a nice family drama would be good for your shelves. But instead I want to recommend, I think, a pair of books. And one is so perfect for you that I wouldn't be the tiniest bit surprised if you have read it already. And that is Tell Me Everything: The Story of a Private Investigation by Erika Krauss. Do you know this?

Courtney Haggerty [00:37:54] I have that on Libby right now I think as one of my holds.

Anne Bogel [00:37:59] This is a great book for you. It blends memoir and true crime. It's about a landmark sexual assault case that takes place on a college campus. And while it's never identified in the book, the journalists say that it's clearly identifiable as the University of Colorado at Boulder. But this is such an interesting narrative where she tells her personal story and the reasons why it was totally wrong for her to take the case, she had history of sexual assault. So why would she be professionally wading into those waters? But she does. She works for an attorney as a private investigator. She investigates cases for his firm and he takes on a new client who was sexually assaulted by college football recruits at this school. And he wants to prove the school was not only aware of, but complicit in the program's culture of violence. And she says to herself this is a bad idea. This could potentially be terrible for me, but I can't resist the prospect of securing justice and making the perpetrators pay for what they did to the student and to so many others. And you watch the lawsuit in this story move forward and what that does for her and what happens in the case. I mean, we both know why it's on your list. How does that sound to you?

Courtney Haggerty [00:39:14] It sounds great.

Anne Bogel [00:39:16] I imagine with the frequency of Libby holds you have coming in that maybe perhaps you don't read everything that comes through. Tell me if I'm wrong. I know that happens to me and I don't use nearly as many Libby holds as you do. But I would definitely clear the decks and make time for this one.

Courtney Haggerty [00:39:35] I will. It sounds great.

Anne Bogel [00:39:36] Okay. And I hate to give you another book that's not coming out until February, but I'm going to do it because it's too perfect for you and you really need to know about it. Is that okay?

Courtney Haggerty [00:39:47] Absolutely. I love any book recommendations I can go get at Carmichaels in a few months. Absolutely.

Anne Bogel [00:39:55] So Rebecca Makkai who was a Pulitzer finalist for her novel The Great Believers that came out five-ish years ago, maybe for years, has a new book coming out. This new one is set at an isolated New Hampshire boarding school where the protagonist went to school in 1995 where one of her classmates was murdered back then. So the narrator, her name is Bodie, she has grown up. She's become a professor, she's become a professional podcaster. And she does a lot with true crime and Hollywood on her podcast. So now she's back to teach a special short session of class to high school students. Basically she pays someone, even though she knows she shouldn't, to investigate that 1995 murder and do a podcast about it because Bodie (that podcaster protagonist professor) she has some questions. And there's this specific person she has a lot of questions for. And that is a teacher who taught back then that she thought was never fully investigated the way he should have been. It's such an interesting self-aware exploration of true crime and education, and close professorial student relationships and feminism. And I'm not entirely doing justice to this, but I think this ticks so many of your boxes. It's called I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai and it comes out in February.

Courtney Haggerty [00:41:29] That sounds so good.

Anne Bogel [00:41:33] It's going to be great for you. And it's a longer one. I know you love that feeling of accomplishment with a longer book. This isn't super long, but it's about 450, which is not fast.

Courtney Haggerty [00:41:43] That's my favorite.

Anne Bogel [00:41:45] Okay. Courtney, I didn't give a lot for you to choose from right now. But available to you right now you have Tell Me Everything by Erika Krouse, and you have that available to you. It sounds like right now. And then Foster by Claire Keegan that's waiting for you at Carmichaels. What do you think you'll read next there?

Courtney Haggerty [00:42:03] I think I'm going to start with Tell Me Everything because I have that right now on my Kindle. And then I think this weekend I'll head to Carmichael's and get Foster.

Anne Bogel [00:42:12] I love it. I can't wait to hear what you think. And then I'm really excited for you to have these books to look forward to. Gone Like Yesterday by Janelle Williams And then I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai. I think those are both right up your alley.

Courtney Haggerty [00:42:22] Can't wait. Sounds great.

Anne Bogel [00:42:24] Me either. Courtney, thank you so much for coming on and talking books with me today.

Courtney Haggerty [00:42:28] Thank you for having me, Anne.

Anne Bogel [00:42:29] Oh, it's been a pleasure.

[00:42:36] Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Courtney, and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Let us know today at whatshouldIreadnextpodcas.com. That's also where you'll find all the books we talked about today. Every week we take a look at some of our favorite podcast moments and engage in spirited book talk on our Instagram page @WhatshouldIreadnext. We love it when you share our post to your own stories and help your friends figure out what they should read.

[00:43:00] Follow me on Instagram too. I'm there @Annebogel. Stay in the loop for all our What Should I Read Next happenings when you sign up for our weekly newsletter. Visit: WhatshouldIreadnextpodcast.com/newsletter to make sure you never miss an update. Follow along on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, wherever you get your podcasts. We're taking next week off so our team can enjoy a holiday break. But with over 350 episodes in our podcast backlist, we hope you'll find a delightfully bookish listen to Enjoy. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode to kick off a new year of literary delight.

[00:43:36] Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What should I read next is created each week with production assistant Holly Wielkoszewski and editing and sound design by Studio Podcast Productions.

[00:43:46] Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading everyone.