Book mail keeps us together

[00:00:00]

BARBARA: For about 30, 40 years, I was just too busy and just reading sporadically

ADRIENNE: That sounds so funny that she say since 1980. That's 40 years of solid reading.

[CHEERFUL INTRO MUSIC]

ANNE: Hey, readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next? Episode 350.

Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader: What Should I Read Next?

We don't get bossy on this show: What we WILL do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read.

Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

[MUSIC]

ANNE: Readers, if you love a bookish challenge, you are just in time for trivia night coming next week. Our virtual event invites you to show off your knowledge of all things books and reading and of course, What Should I Read Next.

With categories that range from books and authors to What Should I Read Next? team tidbits, deep cuts, and more, you'll have a chance to share your passion with fellow book lovers in a gently competitive and friendly environment.

Sign up at patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext and tune in October 20th at 7 p.m. Eastern to join the fun. That's patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext.

Readers, reading is often a family affair, so I loved today's conversation with octogenarian and lifelong reader Barbara and her daughter Adrienne. Barbara has lived a fascinating life. She grew up in World War II London and later spent many years living, working, and traveling all around the world.

These days when she's not gardening or volunteering in her community, you'll likely find her reading a sweeping family saga with strong historical elements, often set in a foreign land.

Adrienne became a reader with her mother's encouragement, and lately, they've reversed roles when it comes to recommending books. Adrienne asked for help finding titles that will capture her mother's imagination while gently expanding her genres of choice.

She'd also love to bring a modern twist to the books Barbara is reading while keeping the feel of the historical epics she knows her mom adores.

And if you're a fellow historical fiction lover who is feeling like you simply can't read another European World War II novel, my picks for Barbara today might be perfect for you, too. Let's get to it!

[00:02:19]

ANNE: Adrienne and Barbara, welcome to the show.

ADRIENNE: We're glad to be here. [CHUCKLES]

BARBARA: Thank you. [CHUCKLES]

ANNE: I must say we were so excited to get your submission because we've talked to guests, we've talked to mother-daughter pairs before, we've talked about familial reading relationships. But Adrienne, when we saw your submission coming from you, a daughter, who I believe is about my age, and your mom who was 88 at the time, and how you all are instrumental to each other's reading lives, we really wanted to talk to you. Thank you for making that possible today.

ADRIENNE: You're welcome.

ANNE: So tell me the circumstances that allowed us to talk today. I believe y'all are together this morning.

ADRIENNE: I live here near Chattanooga, Tennessee and Barbara lives in Portland, Oregon. She's been visiting me for the last week and is traveling home tomorrow. So this is one of the rare occasions where we're actually here together physically.

ANNE: I'm so glad you are together so we can have this conversation. Barbara, I don't know if you know what Adrienne wrote in and told us about you. But she gave us a bit of your personal history and she told us about your reading life. And I'd love to hear in your own words a little bit of what you told our team.

BARBARA: I read here that I was born and grew up in London during World War II. So that is a very vivid memory for me. I was there in London for much of the Battle of Britain and the V1 and V2 bombing.

Also, I was evacuated multiple times, not to strangers, but to family members, grandparents, and cousins of my parents who lived out in the country. But of course they were strangers to us, to my sister and I.

So I missed a great deal of school during my childhood. Up to the age of 12 I would think I missed at least 50% of my schooling because when we were evacuated away, the schools in the countryside were full of evacuees and the teachers couldn't cope with the influx of all these evacuees. So generally we just sat on the floor and did practically nothing. [ALL CHUCKLES]

My elementary education was almost zero. My secondary schooling I was at school in London. By that time the war was over, but life was still very difficult in Britain. We still had rationing of food right up till 1952.

ANNE: Adrienne told us about the university years in Scotland.

BARBARA: Yes, I went to St. Andrews University in Scotland. I was there for four years. Met my husband there the first week that I was there. We were married when we graduated four years later.

From then on, there was compulsory national service. So my husband was in the Navy for three and a half years immediately after graduating. And after he came out of the Navy, we traveled.

He wanted to be a university professor. We were fortunate that he got a scholarship to Australian National University in Canberra. So we were two, three years in Australia in the capital Canberra. And during that time, we spent a year in the South Pacific in New Caledonia.

After that we were in Malaysia for eight years. He was teaching at the university and I was teaching at a school in Malaysia. And after that, returned to Scotland for a short time, and then eventually ended up in Arizona State University in Tempe. I was there for about 14, 15 years.

During all this time, while I had five children, I was working all the time teaching. And with the constant moving from place to place and very often overseas move, it's been a very, I suppose, disruptive life. [ALL CHUCKLES] And so my reading has been very touch-and-go with not too much time. And it's only really since about 1980 that I've had any consistent time for reading. For about 30, 40 years, I was just too busy and just reading sporadically.

ADRIENNE: Oh, that sounds so funny that you say since 1980. [BARBARA LAUGHS] That's 40 years of solid reading. [ALL LAUGHS]

ANNE: Almost my entire life.

ADRIENNE: Yeah, exactly.

ANNE: I hope one day I can say, "I've been reading steadily for 40 years now." [BARBARA CHUCKLES]

ADRIENNE: 40 years. Exactly.

BARBARA: Oh, dear.

[00:07:11]

ADRIENNE: I think she downplays it a little bit. But I do remember when I was in high school and college you used to get books from the Book of the Month Club-

BARBARA: Oh, yes.

ADRIENNE: And every month your books would show up at our house, and they were always these bricks of novels. Sometimes they would come in two volumes. Like the far pavilions, which is book one and book two.

BARBARA: The Shogun.

ADRIENNE: And Shogun.

BARBARA: All of those.

ADRIENNE: All these sort of big, hefty historical novels [BARBARA CHUCKLES] which is what I remember-

BARBARA: Oh, dear.

ADRIENNE: ...her reading when I was in high school and college.

ANNE: Barbara, you said that you felt reading with touch and go for many years while you were teaching. And yet, Adrienne, you say that she definitely passed on her love of books and reading to you. I'd love to hear a little bit about growing up a reader in that family.

ADRIENNE: Oh, well, one of the things that she didn't mention is that although we did move a lot, I do remember that whenever we moved, the books got packed up and they moved too. They weren't discarded as part of the move.

So the first house we had in Arizona, I remember, you had a whole wall of bookshelves installed in the dining room, and it was full of books. So books have always been, you know, part of the house I grew up in.

And I know that you always love to read. My memory is always that you prefer to read sort of these big, meaty historical novels that had, you know, some history to them.

I don't remember you reading sort of romance books or anything that I would consider, you know, sort of more lighthearted. They were always these, you know, hefty novels is what I remember.

She also always encouraged us to read as children. And I remember on Fridays, when we lived in Malaysia, we would go to the bank after school, because you had to do the banking for the school, and she would basically bribe myself and my siblings that "If you behave while I'm at the bank, we will go to the bookstore," which was in the same building as the bank, "and you can get a book."

And so I always loved those Fridays. And we would go to the bookstore and I would get an [inaudible 00:09:13] lightened book every week on Friday, and I would have it read by Saturday morning.

So there was a great deal of encouragement to read when I was growing up. Books were seen as just a fact of life. Everybody was expected to read and encouraged to read.

ANNE: Barbara, do you remember what kind of books or any specific titles you were excited to focus on back when you feel like you did get a lot of time opened up in your life that you could spend reading?

[00:09:42]

BARBARA: Well, I know as a young child books were the only thing that we had. It was during the war years and there were no toys. So books were the only sort of pleasurable activity that was available.

But I remember when I was in secondary school, about age 14, the English teacher more or less expected us to read. And it had to be classical books. So from the age of about 14 onwards, I read many Charles Dickens books, Walter Scott, George Eliot, Jane Austen, all these classical books.

I got into the habit of every evening after doing my homework, I had to read 50 pages, you know. And I got into that habit. And that stayed with me for a number of years.

Later on, I suppose the books that I always liked were books with geographical backgrounds. You know, like The Thornbirds in Australia. Anything Australia. I liked the famous Australian writer. I can't remember his name now.

ADRIENNE: Nevil Shute.

BARBARA: No, not Nevil Shute.

ANNE: Adrienne, that was going to be my guess. [ANNE, ADRIENNE CHUCKLES]

ADRIENNE: Who's an Australian writer.

BARBARA: Anyway, I like books with foreign background: India, Pakistan, China, anything. I was never drawn to American literature ever. And that's never been one of my favorite things. I always like something with European or Asian background, Australian background.

ANNE: It sounds like the connection to your personal history is really important in your reading.

BARBARA: Yeah.

ANNE: Barbara, were there certain areas of the world that you focused on when you studied history and geography at St. Andrews?

BARBARA: Well, I did a degree in history and geography, but it's just the fact that I've lived overseas for a large part of my life. And that really interests me. When we were in Malaysia, I mean, we visited Singapore and Thailand. It was during the Vietnam War, so I read a lot about Vietnam and Cambodia. So this sort of thing is what interests me.

ANNE: Barbara, I'd love to hear a little bit about what your reading life is like these days. What kind of books are you choosing to read and how do you find them?

BARBARA: Adrienne sends me books. I mean, one parcel had 24 in it, [ALL CHUCKLES] and that took me a while to get through. So I just rely on her choices for me. And 95% of the time, they're just excellent. I really enjoy them. She knows what I like.

[00:12:35]

ADRIENNE: This started I don't... how many years ago?

BARBARA: Oh, years and years.

ADRIENNE: Several years ago. Probably about eight years ago. And we were having a conversation and I asked her what she was reading and she said, "Well, I sort of don't really have anything right now." And so I just grabbed a box and I walked up and down my bookshelves, and I picked things off the shelf that I thought she would like, and I stuck them in a box, and I mailed them to her.

And the first time we did this, what you sent me back was you sent back the books, and you wrote one long list with all the titles. And she wrote sort of "I like this one. I didn't like this one." Very short notes about each one. So based on that, I chose round two, a second set of books for her.

Nowadays, you know, I choose books for her and many of them come from, you know, your recommendations, Anne, or recommendations that people make in the comments on your blog posts about books. And I choose books for her.

But we're past the point where everything I send her I have read. Originally, I was only sending her books that I had actually read myself and had very good confidence that I thought she would like those choices. But now I feel like I'm winging it. [BARBARA CHUCKLES] I'm sending her stuff that I haven't read. I'm just ordering it and having it shipped to her. But it's very much sort of historical fiction is what I gravitate to in choosing books for her.

ANNE: Now, based on what I know Barbara loves—and we are going to talk about that—it sounds like choosing historical fiction is something that you've become pretty adept at when you're thinking about your mother's reading taste.

ADRIENNE: Yes.

ANNE: And yet, tell me about wanting to branch out.

ADRIENNE: I mean, there is a wealth of outstanding historical fiction books, but I just feel like I need to get her something different. Because, honestly, how many books do you really want to read about, you know, the World War II Holocaust? It just gets a little, I think, repetitive.

And so when I wrote the submission, I had in mind finding books for Barbara that had the characteristics that she likes in historical fiction, but maybe set in more modern times but would give her the same, you know, reading satisfaction as a historical fiction couched in historical events. That's what I was looking for. Because I think that I am clueless as to what to choose outside of the historical fiction genre.

ANNE: And yet, you've had some successes, or Barbara has had some success.

ADRIENNE: I think so. Yes, I think so. I think some of it has just been luck, honestly.

ANNE: You know, I think that is true for all of us readers. So I'm glad that you've had your share of the same. Now, Adrienne, you sent us some pictures of the Post-it note book reviews that Barbara does when she finishes a book, and I would love to hear the whole story from you too.

[00:15:32]

ADRIENNE: Like I said, the first time I sent her a box of books, what I got back was a list of all the books. But over time, she switched to writing a single Post-it for each book that I sent her. And she writes on the Post-it you know, did she enjoy the book? And if so, why? What did she like about it?

And she can fit a lot of opinions and a lot of thoughts in a small little Post-it note. It's amazing. They're precious to me because when I get the book back, I have this very visible, tangible expression of her thoughts and opinions on the book. And it helps me decide what else to pick for her.

And I have a library now that is full of books that you've read and have your Post-it notes reviews inside each one. And in fact, there's been a couple of books that I've sent when I read the post that you're like, "This one was not for me. This was a very dark, brutal book." And I think, "Well, I really don't want to keep this one," but I can't get rid of it because it's got the Post-it note so I'm compelled to keep it.

ANNE: I'll read one of the Post-its for our listeners. So this is about Miss Benson's Beetle by Rachel Joyce, which I have to say is different in character than the other books that I've seen that you love, Barbara. But this is one of the shorter Post-its. It says, "Unbelievable. I loved the quirky humor and cozy storyline. A five star hilarious gem of a book."

ADRIENNE: Exactly.

ANNE: I would keep those books and Post-its forever too, Adrienne.

ADRIENNE: And it's funny. Sometimes the books that Barbara reads, I think, you know, they trigger memories for her. So here's an example. One of the books I sent her was A Fierce Radiance by Lauren Belfer. And this is a historical fiction all about the sort of development of penicillin into a commercialized drug.

During World War II, penicillin had been discovered, but they had no idea how to manufacture it in the quantities they needed to support, you know, the medical needs of the troops and also how to dose patients with it. So this book explores all of that history.

And when I got the book back, your Post-it note on that said, you know, "This reminded me of when I was young, and I had scarlet fever and there was no medicine to treat it." So you will quarantine for weeks and weeks in the house all by yourself with scarlet fever.

And at the end of her quarantine, she told me that everything in the room where she’d been staying, you know, the bedroom, was basically taken out and burned because it was all considered contagious. So your reading that book reminded you of that episode.

[00:18:16]

ANNE: Yeah, I imagine. Well, I'm excited to hear more about the successes in Barbara's reading life and also see what we can do about finding some books she may enjoy reading next.

ADRIENNE: Wonderful.

ANNE: Barbara and Adrienne, you know how this works. I'm going to hear three books you love, one book you don't, and what you've been reading lately, and then we'll talk about what you may enjoy reading next. Tell me about the first book you loved, Barbara.

BARBARA: The Invisible Bridge by Julie Orringer. This is a book set in Budapest during World War II. It describes the disrupted lives of three very close brothers, Andras, Matyas, and Tibor, who grew up as a very close family in Budapest, and how during the war they're split apart.

We hear very little about the history of people in Eastern Europe during Second World War. It's more the British, American, French side, the Western European side of the war. But the Eastern Europe had a horrific time. So this story was just an eye-opener for me.

ADRIENNE: This is a book that I also read, and I loved. And what I liked so much about it was in describing the events that happened to these three brothers over the years of the war, you see very clearly how they're changed.

For instance, the youngest brother, who is an architecture and art student at the first half of the book, he's very sort of carefree and young and he's in love and there's this romance and he's very sort of optimistic and hopeful.

But by the end of the war, with all the experiences he has gone through, he's much more somber and subdued. You just saw such a dramatic change in his character from the events that he went through. And I think this novel just depicts that so well, the toll that events have on people profoundly changing them and their outlook on life in very dramatic ways. That's what I really liked about this book was just the powerful change in the characters in the way it was described by the book.

ANNE: Based on what you said, you enjoy reading, Barbara, it doesn't surprise me a bit that The Invisible Bridge is the first book you cited as one that you love.

I remember Georgia Hunter saying this book's praises on What Should I Read Next? when she came on to talk about her novel, We Were the Lucky Ones. If that's not a book you've read already, Barbara, I think that's a great historical fiction pick for you.

ADRIENNE: That is one that Barbara has read. I've sent that to her. That was a home run. That's definitely one you loved.

BARBARA: Yeah.

ANNE: Tell me about the second book.

ADRIENNE: The second book that we both read and both liked was The Stationery Shop by Marjan Kamali, which is quite different from The Invisible Bridge.

BARBARA: This one takes place in Tehran. It's about two young high school students, both quite withdrawn introvert students I believe. Roya the young girl and Bahman the boy they just both seem to be loners. But they visit the stationery shop and there they befriend the bookkeeper, Mr. Fakhri.

They meet up and over the months they become strong friends and eventually end up emotionally engaged with each other. But backdrop is against the revolution in Tehran and the violent upheaval in the country. And so it's on a double level the story.

ADRIENNE: It's a very compelling book in the sense that it brings both the storylines together and ties it and you sort of see the whole picture at the end.

ANNE: Based on what you said you love Barbara, I can see how The Stationery Shop was a big hit. Tell me about another book that really worked for you.

BARBARA: The Rose Code by Kate Quinn. This takes place during the Second World War at the feigned Bletchley Park decoding facility outside London, northwest of London. The story revolves around three young ladies. The first one is Osla, who is a Canadian girl from high society. In fact, is a friend of Prince Philip. She comes to Britain and wants to be part of the war effort and ends up as a translator. She's a fluent German speaker. So she works as a translator.

The second girl is Mab Churt from a working-class family in London but she has an excellent mathematical brain and works as a codebreaker.

And the third girl is Beth who lives locally near Bletchley Park but is very much put down by her mother and nobody thinks much of her. They think in fact that she's rather below-average intelligence. But in fact, she has a brilliant mathematical mind and ends up as one of the top codebreakers at Bletchley Park.

And it's the story of these three young girls and their life at Bletchley Park, which is just a crucial part of the war effort in Britain. They say that without the codebreakers of Bletchley Park the war would probably have continued for another couple of years without their decoding of events that were about to happen.

It's an exciting book and based on true events. I mean, you can go to Bletchley Park and see these machines, the decoding machines. So I like this story very much because it is very realistic. It is based on true events.

ANNE: Have you read other novels by Kate Quinn?

BARBARA: I believe so but I can't recall their titles right now.

ADRIENNE: I just gave her The Diamond Eye, which is the new Kate Quinn, but she has not read that yet.

BARBARA: I haven't read it yet.

[00:24:55]

ANNE: Something to look forward to. And I know Barbara that you also loved another title. And since I know what it is, I can't bear to leave it out. [ALL LAUGHS] Please tell us about the brick of a book that you also loved.

ADRIENNE: I have to tell you the story on this one, Anne. You recommended this one and I thought, "Oh, that sounds right up mom's alley. He's gonna love this book." So I ordered it from Amazon for her and about four days later, I got a phone call that said, you know, "This rick of a book that is about three inches thick just landed on my doorstep."

So this is The Eighth Life by Nino Haratischvili. But I have not read this one. So you're gonna have to talk to this one.

BARBARA: This just overwhelms you. It has everything. It has horror, passion, everything, delight. It takes place in Georgia in the southernmost part of, I suppose, European Russia. And it is of course the home... Georgia is the home of the dictator Stalin and also the monster Beria.

Beria especially is just a monster. At one moment it's just sort of beautiful, charming, alive and then the next instant it's sort of horrific cruelty. It just swings from highs to lows. And it goes through several generations.

And very often I find in generational books like this, by the time you get to the fourth generation, it's become somewhat wary sermon. You like the first two generations, because they have so much more meaning to you. And once you get to the low of younger generations, your interest wanes.

But in this book, I found that even towards the end of the book, in the younger generation, as the interest is kept alive, I just couldn't put it down. It was just totally absorbing.

[00:27:03]

ANNE: I thought you were gonna say you could barely pick it up. [ANDRIENNE, BARBARA LAUGHS] I listened on audio, which was much lighter, if not content-wise. Well, thank you for telling us about that.

Now, Barbara, to get a better handle on your taste, tell me about a book that wasn't right for you as a reader.

BARBARA: Oh, well, one book, and I read this a long, long time ago, was The Joy Luck Club by Amy Tan. I just couldn't get into this book at all. I felt that there wasn't a single character in the book that I could somehow relate to.

ANNE: Well, in The Joy Luck Club, there are a lot of characters, and you don't get to spend a great deal of time with any of them. I wonder if perhaps we should be thinking of novels where you spend more time with each character and get to know them better?

BARBARA: Yeah, yeah, maybe. That's true. I've only read two. There's two by Amy Tan. The second one was-

ANNE: The second one was The Bonesetter's Daughter. I think that is the name of the-

BARBARA: I just couldn't get through it.

ANNE: Barbara, what have you been reading lately?

BARBARA: Well, during the summer months, I don't really read much at all. I'm outside. I have a lot of garden projects. My daughter in Portland has a lot of rental properties and I look after all the gardens for all these different properties. So by the time I get home from gardening and all that, I'm too tired to read.

I start my reading usually about the end of September and go through March probably. That's when I read. So I haven't really read anything much lately.

ANNE: But your reading season approaches.

BARBARA: Yes. Yes. By September I'll be ready to settle down and put up my gardening tools and settle in for a good read.

ADRIENNE: Yes. I did send you the Great Circle by Maggie Shipstead and you told me... because she's just started it. I think she's only about 50 pages into it. And she told me it was a bit lewd. So I'm thinking that maybe that was a bad choice to send that one to you.

[00:29:15]

ANNE: Barbara, what kind of books are you looking to sock away for when fall begins?

BARBARA: Well, I just really... look, Adrienne just picks out all these books for me. I just sort of enjoy.

ANNE: So I'm asking the wrong person.

ADRIENNE: So I would like to find her books that have the meaningful stories and the characters that she can empathize with and cheer for and root for, but maybe not relying so much on the historical aspect or the geographical aspect. That's sort of what I had in mind.

ANNE: So looking to bring a little bit of genre diversity.

ADRIENNE: Exactly.

ANNE: So the books Barbara loved were The Invisible Bridge by Julie Orringer, The Stationery Shop by Marjan Kamali, The Rose Code by Kate Quinn, and also The Eighth Life by Nino Haratischvili.

The Joy Luck Club was not a good fit, and currently you're reading a little bit of Great Circle by Maggie Shipstead. And we're looking for stories that would nestled up nicely with these on a bookshelf and also modern fiction that has similar vibes.

ADRIENNE: Yes.

ANNE: Okay. First of all, I have to ask, Barbara, have you read the works of Rosamund Pilcher or Maeve Binchy?

BARBARA: Yes. I've read books by Roseman Pilcher.

ADRIENNE: I know she's read Shell Seekers and September. I don't think I've ever sent you any Maeve Binchy.

BARBARA: The name is familiar to me and I can't place the titles if I've read any.

ANNE: Both authors are prolific. So if there are any unread, those may be worth revisiting. As we're looking for what to read next, I'm really thinking about what you said, Barbara about your preferences. So you're not necessarily drawn to American fiction. Although Adrienne has said some titles have really worked for you in the past. Like Adrienne said you did really enjoy Behold the Dreamers by Imbolo Mbue

ADRIENNE: Yes.

ANNE: And you love books that take you around the world, Europe, Russia, China, Malaysia, places that you enjoy visiting on the page, or even places you've lived before. You really like that aspect to your fiction. I'm so sorry, Adrienne. I want to start with a World War II book.

ADRIENNE: That's good.

[00:31:38]

ANNE: There's a new world war two novel coming out in October. It's called When We Had Wings. It's a collaboration between three best-selling historical fiction authors, Ariel Lawhon, Kristina McMorris, and Susan Meissner.

I know many of you listeners have read their works in the past. I wouldn't be surprised, Adrienne and Barbara, if you've read their works. But they have a new book coming out in October called When We Had Wings. And the reason I want to put it on your radar, Barbara, and I think it may be a good fit is it is a World War II story. It's set in the Philippines in 1941 but it's not been written about in fiction before.

And this would definitely... when people talk about untold stories, or I didn't know where I never learned that in history class, this story would be one of those. And those are three American historical fiction novelists.

But this story features three protagonists. There's a nurse who works for the US Navy, her name is Eleanor. She's from Minnesota. There's a nurse who works for the US Army. Her name is Penny and she's from Houston. And then there's a Filipina nurse. Her name is Lita. And they all meet at the Army Navy Club in Manila, form a friendship, and then get flung out to various parts of the Philippines to endure the war.

I didn't know anything about what happened in the Philippines during World War II except for the Bataan Death March. But these nurses came to be known as the Angels of Bataan. The nurses were the first female POWs ever. And this is their story through three separate threads, what happened, and their role in it. This is a very female-centered story.

And I think it may be interesting for Barbara to read. Adrienne, you mentioned that you've read one World War II novel and so many of them are telling different aspects of the same story. And I feel like this might be a new aspect that Barbara hasn't read about in fiction before, set in a place that perhaps he hasn't visited in fiction or visited as often. How does that sound?

BARBARA: It sounds great. Yes.

ADRIENNE: That sounds great. I know that you've read some Susan Meissner. I sent you Susan Meissner book about the Spanish flu epidemic. I don't remember the title, but I know you've really liked that one.

ANNE: Yes. As Bright as Heaven.

ADRIENNE: Yeah. I sent her that one and she really liked that. But the other two authors, I don't think you've read. But I think that sounds like a really good fit for you, mom. Great choice, Anne.

ANNE: I hope so. Next, I'm wondering about the British Turkish novelist, Elif Shafak. She writes literary fiction. I believe it's not overstating things to say she's won a bunch of awards. The book I would recommend beginning with is her most recent as of this time. It's called The Island of Missing Trees. Is this a book either of you are familiar with?

ADRIENNE: I'm not familiar with this at all.

BARBARA: No, I am not.

[00:34:31]

ANNE: I'd be delighted to put it on your radar. This is an intergenerational story. It's about family and war and loss and also love. And it moves between 1974 Cyprus and London in the 2010s.

So back in Cyprus in the 1970s, a boy and girl fall in love. They are young, but they are not supposed to be together because he is Greek and Christian and she is Turkish and Muslim. And this is not okay. That's what happened in 1974.

And then in 2010s, you slowly find out now in London, all these years later, what happened back then and how it's affecting the family today, which sounds pretty typical for a dual timeline story. But the thing that's especially interesting about this book, and it sounds far-fetched—many readers find that it really, really works, Barbara. I hope you end up being one of them—is that every other chapter in this book is narrated by a fig tree.

And what Shafak said about her reason for making a tree a character and giving the tree an actual voice talking about what he observes these humans doing and thinking and feeling and how they're acting and why is that she wanted a character who stood outside of time, who was there before the humans and would be there after the humans, you know, after all their drama was done unfolding.

There are some chapters in this book that are very botany and conservation-heavy. And she's talking about the fig tree because the thing that happens in the book that is an actual practice to preserve fig trees in colder Mediterranean climates. And remember, I live in a place with four seasons. This is different. This is not something I'm familiar with, except in the pages of the book.

But you prune the branches and then you bury the tree very shallowly in the ground to preserve it. So when the book opens, this thing is happening. And then the tree slowly unspools the story alongside the human narrators.

It's really interesting. It's really different. And I think the story may appeal to you, especially as so many of your books are set against important periods of history, periods that we still remember, and we learn about in history class, those of us who are learning things in history class.

There are times of great political and civil unrest. And this story is set against the backdrop of the 70s story of a divided country on an island in the Mediterranean where Greece and Turkey were at war in the 70s. And I think that dramatic backdrop echoes some of the things you've really enjoyed in your fiction, Barbara.

BARBARA: Yeah, that sounds fascinating.

[00:37:24]

ANNE: Now, Elif Shafak has written quite a few novels. So if you enjoy this, there is more where that came from.

I'd like to close by going to a different part of the world. Now this is a backlist title that I resurrected for the summer reading guide. So perhaps it's already on your radar. I was thinking about What We Were Promised by Lucy Tan. Is this a book y'all are familiar with?

ADRIENNE: I have heard of this one, but I have not read it. And I know you haven't read it.

BARBARA: No.

ADRIENNE: What We Were Promised.

BARBARA: No.

ANNE: I would be delighted to introduce you. What We Were Promised, this book came out about five years ago. I'm sorry to say that it is not a door stopper novel. But it’s set in contemporary Shanghai. So what happens in the story is after 20 years abroad, the Zhen family who's been living in, I think, New England in the United States, they returned to their native China and take up residence among Shanghai's nouveau riche.

And the descriptions of what their life is like are incredible, almost unbelievable in the literal sense of the word. But the reader can see how much deep unease lies behind the facade they've carefully constructed of their really lush lifestyle.

The husband is really unhappy at work, the wife is spending her day shopping and lunging like the other wives are doing, but she doesn't enjoy it. But their daughter is attending school in America and they miss her. It looks like they're living the life and they are hating it.

But the thing that disrupts their pampered malaise here is that the husband's long-lost brother suddenly reappears. And when he does, Tan takes you back in time in the family history, just in their lifetime, we're not going back 100 years, to what unfolded when the husband and wife of the story were first falling in love. And all of a sudden the wife has to revisit past choices that she made that she still feels conflicted about and that she has hidden from almost everyone.

This is really interesting, because you have this backdrop of contemporary Shanghai. And something that's unfolding in Shanghai is a national festival that's celebrating China's history. As the family is attending this festival celebrating China and its heritage, Tan is showing you how the family embodies China's current complex and current complexities which are like rich versus poor, urban versus rural, old versus new values.

I think you may find it really interesting. I know you enjoy reading stories set in China. I hope you enjoy spending time with these characters. The way this story is constructed, you get to know the family and a few people on the family's periphery very well. And really get to understand their motivations.

I want to say they're not quite as warm and lovable as, say, the protagonist in The Stationery Shop. But I think you may find much to love about them as fictional characters. How does that sound to you, Barbara?

BARBARA: Yeah, that sounds fascinating. I have a friend living in Shanghai and I would really enjoy reading that.

[00:40:31]

ANNE: I'm happy to hear it. Barbara, I'd love to put one more book on your radar. Listeners, we talked about this in one of the first episodes of What Should I Read Next?. The book is Ursula, Under by Ingrid Hill. There's a lot of historical in this novel.

It begins in Michigan in the early 2000s when a girl, her name is Ursula, she falls into a well. But what happens next, Hill says, "A girl fell into the well." That's the beginning of the story, right? No. Like the story began long before with the people who begat the girl who got them who we got them who got them. She says all backstory is also story. And so she takes us way back in time to show us the history of Ursula and also her family.

This is written with omniscient narration, where the author makes connections. So the reader gets to see connections between the characters on the page and the contemporary timeline that the characters themselves don't know anything about. I really enjoyed that God's eye view.

This is a long book. It's not as big as The Eighth Life, but it is, I believe, in the neighborhood of 600 pages. So Barbara, I hope that is [BARBARA CHUCKLES] [inaudible 00:41:43] to you because other books we talked about we're on the short side.

But what I like about this is you get a taste of so many different times and places. You go to China in the third century BC, you go to eighth-century Finland, you go to 17th-century Sweden and Canada, you go to 19th-century California. And then finally, you land back in Michigan for the rescue effort.

I mean, the story is all connected but there is definitely a sense in which this feels like many stories in one. And I think that might be a fun trip around the globe for you.

[00:42:17]

BARBARA: Yeah, it sounds fascinating and very different. Yes.

ADRIENNE: That sounds very appealing, something different like that.

ANNE: Of the books we talked about today, we talked about When We Had Wings by Ariel Lawhon, Susan Meissner and Kristina McMorris, The Island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak, What We Were Promised by Lucy Tan, and then finally, Ursula, Under by Ingrid Hill. Now, Barbara, when your gardening projects are done and it gets gray in Portland, and you're back home with your cozy cup of tea in your warm house, what sounds good to you to jump into next?

BARBARA: Well, any of these. I'm sure Adrienne will find them for me and mail them to me. So I'm sure I will have one or all of these books by September ready for me. So I really appreciate your input and helping in finding these new titles for me. Thank you so much.

ADRIENNE: Sadly, we have to wait for the When We Had Wings to come out, because that sounds absolutely fabulous.

BARBARA: Yeah.

ADRIENNE: But I think all of these are great choices for you. I think they have, you know, the elements of what you like and something different than... Some of these I had never heard of.

BARBARA: Yeah, I hadn't heard of these. Yeah.

ADRIENNE: And some of these, Anne, I'm also going to read. Like the Ursula, Under sounds absolutely fun. It sounds like a great read.

ANNE: Well, I'm looking forward to hearing what both of you think. And Barbara and Adrienne, if there are any Post-it note reviews that unfold as a result of our conversation, you know we would love to see them.

ADRIENNE: I will.

BARBARA: Thank you.

[00:44:00]

ANNE: Thank you all so much for talking books with me today and making time out of your visit to talk to What Should I Read Next?.

BARBARA: Thank you so much.

ADRIENNE: I enjoyed it very much. Thank you very much.

[CHEERFUL OUTRO MUSIC]

ANNE: Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Adrienne and Barbara. I'd love to hear what you think they should read next. Find our full list of titles at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/350 and tell us your recommendations for the pair when there.

Hear from us each week right in your inbox, sign up at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/newsletter. I will tell you a little bit about what I'm reading and share three things I've loved lately.

If our show is on your must-listen list, share it with a friend, tag us in a post, reel our story on Instagram @whatshouldireadnext And see what I've been up to by following me @annebogel. Follow along in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast wherever you get your podcasts.

Tune in next week when we have such a special episode for you. We are sharing our live from Bookmarks panel that I moderated at the BookmarksNC Festival of Books & Authors in September. If you've ever wished you could attend a book festival but couldn't make it in person, or if you went to BookmarksNC and just want to relive this awesome experience, seriously, this panel was so good. You will love listening in.

Thanks to the people who make this show happen! What Should I Read Next? is produced by Brenna Frederick, with production assistance by Holly Wielkoszewski, and sound design by Kellen Pechacek.

Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening.

And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone!