Supremely talk-about-able books to fuel your book club conversations

LINDSEY BLOODWORTH: My friend Laura, I think, said it best for that book. She said, "Hated it. Five stars."

ANNE BOGEL: Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading, and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

[00:00:43] Readers, as you will hear shortly, I am joined in today's episode by team member Shannan Malone, whose services are What Should I Read Next? Patreon Community Manager. Before we jump in, Shannan and I want to tell you more about what you'll find when you join us on Patreon.

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[00:01:41] This is exactly what it sounds like. It includes everything we do on Patreon, which is our weekly bonus episodes, live events, like our Fall Book Preview and Summer Reading Guide unboxing, and those new weekly ad-free episodes of What Should I Read Next? We are so grateful for the moral support and also financial support our patrons provide week in and week out. Our patrons truly make it possible for us to do what we do, and that really means paying the bills, as well as boost our morale and give us input.

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Readers, today's format is new-ish to us. It's one in which I invite a team member to join me in recommending titles for a guest. As you may recall from back in episode 523, when I was joined by team member Ginger Horton, sometimes I see a guest submission come across my screen and think, "Oh, I know just the team member I want to have that conversation with and just the team member that reader wants to recommend books to them."

[00:02:51] Today is one of those episodes. I am thrilled to welcome our Patreon community manager, Shannan Malone, to co-host with me. We are chatting with Lindsey Bloodworth, who's joining us from Homewood, Alabama.

Lindsey is a mom to two boys, and she's found joy and community in her book clubs, in a mom's workout group that she's managed to turn into a book club, as well as through another book club at her local indie bookstore.

Lindsey wrote in because she would love to hear ideas for books her community of moms would enjoy reading and discussing together. She's got a wrinkle she's adding to that question, as you will hear. Lindsey's found that having other moms to chat with through all of life's small and big moments has been really important to her, and she's enjoyed using books to spark these conversations.

Shannan also lives in Alabama and in a prior life ran the Rocket City Mom Virtual Book Club for 10 years, where they read over 60 books together. So when she saw Lindsey's she knew she had ideas.

[00:03:45] Today, we will see what types of books we can put on Lindsey's reading radar that might make for great conversations with either one of her book clubs. Readers, I really enjoyed this. Let's get to it.

Lindsey, Shannan, welcome to the show.

LINDSEY: Thanks, Anne.

SHANNAN MALONE: Hello.

ANNE: We always say that reading is better together, and I love that we have a literary trio today. So, like we said in the intro, we are exploring how to bring our team members on and let them speak from their readerly expertise into our listeners' and guests' lives. Because, Shannan, you read very differently from me.

SHANNAN: Yes.

ANNE: Yes. And our readers contain multitudes. Lindsey, we're so glad you're here today. Thank you for doing this for the second or third time, depending on how you're counting, in What Should I Read Next? history. And listeners, if there's a particular team member that you think you are a book twin of, and you'd like to hop on and get their recommendations, I mean, I'll chime in, but, Shannan, I'm deferring to you today, we would love to have you. That page is at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/guest. And Lindsey, that's how you came our way today. Thanks so much for being here.

[00:04:55] LINDSEY: I'm excited to be here after all of these years and all of the attempted submissions.

ANNE: You know, we could pull up that history just for fun. What made you think that now was the time to send in the submission that you did?

LINDSEY: I'm a mom. I live in Homewood, Alabama. I've got two little boys. What made me send in the submission this time was I'm in two book clubs, but one of them is for part of, I guess, my job. I'm a part-time coach for a moms' stroller workout group called Fit4Mom Birmingham. And so, part of the workout is moms can bring their kids in the stroller. We all work out outside together in the, well, sometimes the Alabama heat. The beautiful way to say it is in the sunshine and fresh air.

But it's a really great supportive community of moms. Back in 2022, when I became a coach, they also asked me to start a book club, and I said, yes, with one condition. And that is that I got to pick the books because I wasn't, this is selfish and I know it, but I wasn't interested in reading what someone else wanted to read with my limited reading time with, at the time, two very young kids. And so, I said, "Yes, I'd love to, but everybody has to read what I want to read."

[00:06:21] Mostly, I still pick the books. Sometimes I text another mom who reads a lot or we'll talk about it at book club. Like my friend Michelle recently read Heart the Lover and she said she had listened to the audio three times already on Hoopla. And I thought, "Well, if you've read it three times, we should do it as a book choice."

So, after our conversation, our book club in June, we did Yesteryear and had such an interesting conversation, such a varied conversation about current events and influencer life and how that overlaps with motherhood and decisions that we make every day and how we're influenced whether we know it or not and how we are complicit in the culture and how we also don't like it at the same time. We just had such a great conversation, even with the moms who hadn't finished the book yet, that I thought, "This is what I want more of. More books that we can talk about, even if everybody in the room hasn't finished it." So, I went home and applied to get our book club on the show.

[00:07:38] ANNE: I love it.

LINDSEY: That was the ticket.

ANNE: I love it. That was submission number what?

LINDSEY: Four, maybe.

ANNE: Okay. Lindsey, your first submission, it appears, was in November 2018. Do you remember the books you love? They're different from the books we're talking about today. Actually, I think one would be perfect for your book club.

LINDSEY: I think that one was when I wanted to be... was that the infertility one or when I was applying to be a teacher? Or I wanted more books that were diverse, maybe for my classroom? I don't know. I have no idea what I put in 2018.

ANNE: Well, the books you loved... Well, I could send it to you if you'd like to check it out, take a walk down memory lane. But you loved The Road, To Kill a Mockingbird-

LINDSEY: Yes, I did.

ANNE: And Tell Me More by Kelly Corrigan, which if you haven't read in book club, might be worth resurfacing.

LINDSEY: We haven't done Tell Me More. But as I was looking through the list this morning of all the past books we've done, I thought, "Why haven't we done Tell Me More?"

[00:08:37] ANNE: Maybe because it's really hard. It's really hard in a lot of ways.

LINDSEY: It is. You have to have the right time of year. You're not going to do that in December. I'm just not going to do that with my book club in December. That's too heavy. But yeah, Tell Me More is a good one.

ANNE: But I don't want to get ahead of ourselves as we talk about what might be suitable and what might not be suitable and more. Lindsey, you participate in two book clubs: one you shepherd, one you just get to come and talk books. Tell us more about your reading life.

LINDSEY: I love, I tell people this all the time, I love all book things and all book people. I think y'all say on this show, sometimes book people are the best people. And I really think that's true. So, I'm in a book club through my local independent bookstore, Little Professor.

ANNE: Aw. I got to go there once. It's such a lovely store.

[00:09:30] LINDSEY: I've been in it for five years. Kathleen runs the literary fiction group there. It's a really great intergenerational group of readers. I tend to be on the younger side of that group. It just really enriches, I think, my reading experience. Even if I don't particularly enjoy the book, having the chance to talk about it with a group of people, especially from different lived experiences, is really helpful. So, there's the book club part of my reading life. And being in the two book clubs really shapes my month. Although I'm a book club procrastinator, the number of times I am finishing a book club book the day of or two days before is far more often than not. I would say 85% of the time.

ANNE: And the bright side is it's very top of mind.

LINDSEY: It is. That's the reason I do it. I have a book club this Saturday, and I'm 70% of the way through the book and I'm astonished at myself.

ANNE: What's the book?

[00:10:38] LINDSEY: Theo of Golden. It's for our church retreat. That's a one-off separate book discussion. But yeah, other part of my reading life, I just really... I don't feel like my true self if I'm not reading every day. So, most of the time that's reading before bed. I always have more than one book going, partly because of the book clubs. So, something a little more literary, a little more contemporary, maybe a memoir. And then I'm almost always reading romance at night.

ANNE: That sounds great.

LINDSEY: It's a nice balance.

ANNE: Now, Lindsey, I know it's your book club, the one that you choose the books for, that brought you here today. I'd love to hear more about finding these books that open the door to community and conversation. And that is something... I mean, I love all things books and reading and however you put it, I feel like we should put that on a sticker.

[00:11:37] But you touched on how something I love about reading is you get to springboard into conversations about topics that really matter really quickly in a way that feels natural and not weird or awkward, but just that's what books do. And I'm interested in hearing more about the flavor you're looking for and what's worked before. And I wonder if that means we should start by talking about the books you brought to the show today.

LINDSEY: Yeah, we can. Or I can tell you a little bit about the makeup of the club and why it is the way that it is.

ANNE: Yeah. Let's start there.

LINDSEY: So, FIT4MOM brings moms from all walks of life. But traditionally, or not traditionally, historically it's been moms with younger kids. Although now there's this group of us that's been together, a lot more of our kids are in school and they're not just tiny babies anymore. So having book club on the calendar every month is also a good moms night out opportunity.

[00:12:40] It's a book club that is intentionally always open to any mom. So if they suddenly have a free night, they can feel free to come. I don't ever want a mom to feel like they can't come to book club because they haven't read the book. So when I was thinking about applying to be on the show, I thought it's going to be a funny request to say, "Hey, Anne, please give me books for book club that people don't have to read." You know, like...

ANNE: Okay. That may sound silly, but how many of us listening have been so excited to go to like an author event at the bookstore where the whole point is this book is new, you know nothing, you haven't read it yet, but let's talk about it anyway. There's value there.

LINDSEY: Oh, absolutely.

ANNE: So I hear what you're saying, and also, I don't want you to minimize the value of what you're doing and what this brings people.

[00:13:35] LINDSEY: And that's what I've seen happen. So many times moms... well, and there was even one book that I didn't finish. But moms just really connect with what we're talking about. Whether it's one of the books I'm going to talk about later is What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown, whether it's what role does technology play in the way that we raise our children. We've done a few parenting self-help books where, you know, it doesn't matter if you've read it because you can share your opinion on the topic. But generally, those are not the kind of books we're reading. But it's overall really important to me and other people in the group that it just remain this open space where you can come, you can connect with the moms there, and that you don't feel isolated if you don't know the plot of the book.

We do tell people they will get spoilers. Yesteryear was the only book we chose where I almost told people, "Don't come if you haven't finished it." But I didn't. And the discussion was better for it.

[00:14:42] ANNE: Lindsey, that is good information thinking through hospitality being a leading filter. And then what that means. It means the door is open, even on short notice, even if you have no hope of even obtaining the book before you show up to a set to talk about the topics in it. Okay, so theme forward, or books with like a strong premise that you can emotionally really step into quickly?

LINDSEY: Mm-hmm.

ANNE: Okay Can we hear now what that looks like with the actual titles?

LINDSEY: Sure.

ANNE: Okay. You know how this works. You have brought three books that your book club loved, one book, they didn't, and what you've been reading lately, and Shannan and I are going to explore options for possible future book club selections.

LINDSEY: Sounds good.

ANNE: Lindsey, how did you choose these?

[00:15:39] LINDSEY: I chose the three books today based on overall the best conversations that we've had, the ones that have gotten us kicked out of the restaurant at 10:30. We meet at 7:00 PM, and it is not rare for us to shut down the local restaurant that we're at. Because we sit outside, and they don't close until 10:00 PM. So we are often the last ones gone. And so it's those conversations that I thought we were definitely kicked out. Those are the ones I chose.

ANNE: All right. What's the first book that not quite kept you up all night, but into the night?

LINDSEY: Kept us out into the night. The first book is What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown. I actually found out about it through the Summer Reading Guide. I think it was a Summer Reading Guide. I was really intrigued by the premise. Then our local bookstore also did it as a book club choice, but for a group I'm not in. And I heard that they had a phenomenal discussion. And I thought, "Okay, I heard about it in two places. I know it's about parenthood and technology. We'll read it."

[00:16:52] So What Kind of Paradise ended up being a really great choice because of the conversations the book brings up with technology and protecting our kids. The dad in the book makes the decision to take his daughter into the woods and live there so that they aren't, I guess, poisoned would be the good word to use there. They aren't poisoned by the internet. This is the early '90s with the tech boom. So she's really completely isolated and cut off from society out there.

And as moms in 2026, though 2025 at the time, I feel like what we hear as moms often is the danger of screen time. There are so many dangers online. And we know these things to be true. And we have young kids. And so we're always wrestling with these questions of what limitations do we put in place? When and at what ages do our kids get certain freedoms? Because all of us have, I think the oldest kid, typically, of a mom that comes to our book club is 12. So we don't have a lot of experienced moms in the group that can say, "Oh, my kid's in college, here's how it went for me."

[00:18:21] So I think that does kind of change the conversation that we're having. And What Kind of Paradise really took this idea of parenthood and protecting our kids. And we were able to have a conversation separate from the plot of the book, even though we had plenty of commentary around that because it's so sensational and fun. Well, fun may be the bad word for it.

ANNE: It's big. Lots of big actions and big feelings in that story.

LINDSEY: Yes. So What Kind of Paradise was really a great inroad for a lot of serious and thoughtful conversation.

ANNE: What lingers with you from that conversation, like now that we're probably more than a year out from having it?

LINDSEY: I think overall, it's that we're all struggling with this question of how far is too far in protecting your children? The book does an excellent job of showing that in the extreme. Most people won't take their kids to the woods and cut them off from technology and then decide to publish a manifesto and have their kid learn coding anyway, which is hypocritical, but that's okay. That was a fun side conversation.

[00:19:37] ANNE: Well, that's something to talk about.

LINDSEY: Yeah. But I think it's just like, we're all struggling in this parenthood thing together, and we're all also fearful together, but it's a little less scary because at least we're together trying to figure it out. And every family is going to make a different choice. It can be interesting to hear about the choices other families are making with screen time and how some kids are more sensitive than others to different shows, different books. So every family handles it differently. And I think the more you talk to real people in your community about what's working in their family, just the easier, maybe at least thinking about it, can be. I hope that makes sense.

ANNE: I think so. I think so. Lindsey, what's the second book you all really loved?

[00:20:34] LINDSEY: The second one was actually within our first year of the book club and it was Untamed by Glennon Doyle. We have done a few memoirs over the years, but this was our first one. And it worked really well just logistically as a book club choice because it's got short essays. Again, if you didn't get very far in the book, that's fine because you could say, "Well, I did read this one essay and I really loved it."

But I think this was a great book for a lot of moms to talk about their full selves outside of motherhood, but with motherhood being an integral part of who they are. Untamed, we got to have two really great conversations. One was about past religious history and trauma — I would put the word trauma on it — and how that informs all of us today, no matter what decisions we're making with faith in our families.

[00:21:38] And then also we had some really more concrete discussions. Like there's a great essay in Untamed about talking to boys about pornography. Glennon said something to a friend of hers where... I think I'm close to what she says, but she says like, "Don't leave that boy alone in the dark by himself to figure out this conversation." She has this metaphor with like don't let your son walk alone in the dark woods that is pornography and not go in there with a flashlight and help him out. It feels awkward, but like, do you really want your kid walking alone in the dark? And I thought, "No, because I have two boys." Not that people shouldn't also have this conversation with girls, but for me as a mom of boys, it hit differently. So we were also able to share our individual reactions to specific essays that really resonated for us. That one was mine.

[00:22:39] ANNE: So she's putting, I mean, not easy, relevant topics in front of you one after one and saying, "Talk about this. Talk about this. Don't you want to talk about that?"

LINDSEY: Yes.

ANNE: "Here's a jumping off point."

LINDSEY: Right. And I think it's that jumping off point that provided fantastic discussion. I mean, that was in 2023. So a lot of the core members of the book club have been together that long. And because of the nature of the group and the nature of people's schedules, we have people coming in and out all the time. But there is a core group of moms that have been together. And I think books like Untamed that have allowed us to share deeper parts of ourselves really helped build the backbone of the group and that trust and vulnerability in one another.

[00:23:35] ANNE: That's good to hear. Something else I'm noticing is that with a book like Untamed, and it's been a long time since I've read it, but she puts a lot of different topics on the table. Just going back to the idea of hospitality and creating easy points of entry for your moms coming in, it seems like there are more and less potentially vulnerable conversation points so that people can engage at a level that feels comfortable to them. Is there something there?

LINDSEY: No, I think there's a lot there. I don't know that I have put that to words myself. So that's really helpful. Because you don't want to make a mom who doesn't know us yet say, "Hello, tell us all of your past religious trauma. Go."

ANNE: We're talking about our deepest, darkest secrets.

LINDSEY: But if you've been in this group for three going on four years, you may be more willing to share. And then that can also show a level of openness to our newer moms to say, "Oh, this might actually be a safe place where these moms are being authentic." That's the hope.

[00:24:51] ANNE: Next, process of elimination. Lindsey, I think we have the book that prompted the submission. What's the third book your book club loved?

LINDSEY: So the third book we loved was Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke. This book is everywhere right now. I told our book club, I don't know if this is true or not, but when I chose it, I told them it was the buzziest book of the year. In our experience, that has been true. And so many of the moms said, "Oh my gosh, I've been wanting to read this." So I think it was a good choice.

But because it has to deal or it deals with influencer culture, it deals with motherhood, the motherhood you see on screen, on camera through Instagram, or maybe also TikTok. I don't know. I don't do TikTok. I'm not cool enough. So you have the motherhood on screen, and then you have the true character as presented in the book, who has a completely different personality from her influencer personality.

[00:25:57] The book deals with the repercussions of that. And then also the main character suddenly, and you know this from the book jacket, so it's not a spoiler, unless you're a really cool reader that doesn't read book jackets. That would probably be my preferred way to enter books most of the time. But she suddenly wakes up in 1850s-ish America, and she's having to live this old western, quote, yesteryear life. She's having to make her own bread for real and not just in a fancy, you know, sourdough cast iron... I don't know. What are they called? I don't know. Pan. But she's actually having to work the land and wash laundry by hand.

[00:26:55] So that was the premise that really hooked us. And that, oh, this influencer is going to actually have to live by the values that she espouses online. What does that look like? And so Yesteryear... we had a really fun time. My friend Jane suggested we do a butter party because there was homemade butter in the book. And so everybody brought a butter-themed treat.

ANNE: Wait, so that happened? You made that happen?

LINDSEY: Yes. Really, Jane made it happen.

ANNE: Tell us what was on the table, please.

LINDSEY: Some people brought homemade bread, but we also had Texas Roadhouse rolls and their butter. We just had butter cookies from Trader Joe's. There were Butterfingers. I brought Butterbeer Goldfish from Harry Potter and found those at Costco.

ANNE: I didn't know that was a thing.

[00:27:47] LINDSEY: It was very clear, like, this is what the moms bring to a butter party. But also just all sorts of varieties of butter, which was fun. And then we made our own butter from something someone had seen on Instagram, which is you can put some ingredient that makes butter. I feel like I should know. Cream?

ANNE: I think it's cream.

SHANNAN: Yeah, cream.

LINDSEY: In a Mason jar, and then you just shake it until it makes butter. And so we passed it around while we talked about the book and made our own butter.

SHANNAN: I love that.

LINDSEY: Jane gets all the credit here. But so that was fun. And sort of a tongue in cheek, you know, where we're talking about influencer culture, but yet also we're actively doing this thing to see if it works that we saw on Instagram by making this butter.

[00:28:42] So it was fun. But then the conversation we had about that kind of double life personality that the main character, I think her name is Natalie, had, and then the reflections on motherhood and what we see online and how sometimes we're like, "Oh, we want to do that." And then it's like, "Yeah, but that's not real." Or maybe it is real. But we need to be really careful and ask a lot of questions and keep in mind that it's a produced video that we're seeing. And that's a huge part of the book.

But my friend Laura, I think, said it best for that book. She said, "Hated it. Five stars." Even if you hated the character, I think that book works best in community discussion. I can't imagine having read Yesteryear and not having a group of people to talk about it with for hours.

[00:29:44] ANNE: So nobody needs to hear my anecdotal experience with Yesteryear, but I'm about to share it anyway. So buzziest book of the year... honors. There has been no other book that I can recall ever where two friends have texted me five minutes apart and said, "Oh my gosh, Anne, have you read this? I just finished. We're talking about it with book club tomorrow. This was amazing," and, "Oh my gosh, Anne, have you read this? I despise this book. Why do people like it? It's my book club pick for next week." That's big feeling. They both love their conversations with their book club, by the way.

But also, I was out this weekend and a friend of mine said, "You work in books, right? Your job is books. I just finished Yesteryear. I need to talk about it. Are you my person? My brain is going to explode if I can't get some words out. Is that you?" I was like, "I feel like I've read it. You can tell me things you want." She said, "Where can I find someone who's read this book?" And I thought, "Well, you're a teacher."

LINDSEY: Everywhere.

ANNE: "You could probably whisper 'Yesteryear' in your class and like 2/3 of the heads in the room would swivel around. You could put a Post-It note on the teachers' lounge and say, 'Big thoughts, must share. Find me,' and you'd have a crowd."

[00:30:53] She said that she wasn't sure she wanted to admit to reading it in that setting.

SHANNAN: Oh, fair.

ANNE: So I said, "That was silly. Everybody's reading it. Like, it's not just you."

LINDSEY: Everybody's reading it.

ANNE: "It's never just you."

LINDSEY: I had a separate conversation with our pastor about it. She was on sabbatical, and we met up for coffee, and I was like, "Look, I'm not trying to make you be a minister right now. You're on sabbatical. Let's talk about Yesteryear." And talking about it with her was really a different conversation than with my book club, because my pastor really did not like Natalie. And I was like, "I think that's the point. We're not supposed to like Natalie." But that can be hard, because not every... Some people... I think if you have to have a character that you're rooting for, you should not read Yesteryear, because you're not... If that's going to make reading the book hard for you, life is only so long. You don't have to read all of the buzzy books.

[00:31:48] ANNE: But apparently you can read a book because it's buzzy and still learn something about yourself as a reader.

LINDSEY: Yes.

ANNE: And what you like in a reading experience-

LINDSEY: But it does go dark places, so...

ANNE: ...and what will really niggle at you?

LINDSEY: Sure.

ANNE: Or stronger, maybe. Do you all love a theme, like per the butter party, or is that just kind of a one-off?

LINDSEY: That was a one-off. I think in our best months, we would love to have a theme every month, but we don't. We do romance for Christmas. That is always a theme. It started a little on accident with a spicier book than intended. So we have done spicy romance for the last three years, but we don't like to eat spicy food or anything. We just have hot chocolate and cider and wear Christmas pajamas.

ANNE: Okay. That sounds fun.

LINDSEY: Oh, it's delightful.

ANNE: All right. Lindsey, tell us about a book that was not right for your book club, and we would like to hear what didn't work.

[00:32:50] LINDSEY: So the book that wasn't right for our book club was I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman. And it didn't work because it was too literary. The premise was great. You know, this woman wakes up in, we think, a jail cell. There's no men. She's surrounded by women. She's constantly watched. What is going on? It's a great premise that sounds, in some ways, really contemporary.

Thematically I knew when I picked it that it would have some great connection points about feminism and modern womanhood, and what could this look like in an alternate reality? But it was just a little too out there in its presentation style. A lot of the moms that finished it, which wasn't actually that many, did not like that there wasn't really this resolution, that there was still a lot of ambiguity, is what they say.

[00:34:01] This is actually one that's maybe the only one in this book club that I've never finished. I had just read a similar book, well, a read-alike called The Wall that was also about an isolated woman, and that was part of the reason selfishly that I chose I Who Have Never Known Men, and it didn't land.

ANNE: I am wondering if quietly devastating and emotionally raw and merciless are just the wrong vibe for this group.

LINDSEY: Yes. I would say that is absolutely true. We don't mind a little bit of hope in our books.

ANNE: Don't mind as in it-

LINDSEY: We would prefer to have hope.

ANNE: If it's going to be bleak, it needs to have some moments of light or levity?

LINDSEY: Yes.

ANNE: Okay. So it doesn't have to come out on the balance towards hope, but like give you something.

[00:34:58] LINDSEY: Right. We did Talking at Night by Claire Daverley. I almost chose that one as a book that didn't work overall for the group because I think there was hope in it, but it was just a little too depressing throughout the book.

ANNE: I love that book. I'm so excited she finally has a new one. And also, I hear you. This is not the place for that kind of emotional balance.

LINDSEY: Mm-hmm.

ANNE: Okay. So, too far towards the bleak end of the spectrum? Or too much time in the bleak end of the spectrum.

LINDSEY: True.

ANNE: Okay. Okay, what have y'all been reading lately?

LINDSEY: With the theme of buzzy books this year, we just finished Strangers by Belle Burden. We actually met, well, as of this recording, like two nights ago.

ANNE: Okay. Fresh in mind.

[00:36:03] LINDSEY: And talked about that. That was another great discussion that people could join without having read the book if we just say, "Hey, this is about a couple during the pandemic. Wife finds out the husband cheated on her, and then he leaves, and in her experience, his entire personality changes. He becomes a stranger. Thoughts and feelings around that." That was an easy entry point for people.

But then was also just fun to have a conversation around... Well, again, fun may not be the right word. But interesting to have a conversation around that being somebody else's experience and how blindsiding that would be. But then also, a couple of the moms brought up, like, "Well, you know, I don't know that I have all of our financial passwords. You know, if this happened to me, or even if there was a terrible accident, I would like to know more financial information about my family."

ANNE: Like it's a big "what if".

[00:37:10] LINDSEY: Right. So that book just brings that up for people. So that was a great conversation. And everybody found it very compelling, even if we couldn't figure out why we all wanted to keep reading it. The number of moms that said, "I read that in two days," or, "I read that so fast," that was nice. Like, whatever about the writing style. And I think it's because it was so conversational, so approachable. It was originally written for, I think it was the Modern Love column. And so I think just that style of writing is really easy to digest even if the topic's difficult.

ANNE: I don't know if you went there, but there's also a conversation to be had about who gets to tell the story.

LINDSEY: We did.

ANNE: Okay.

LINDSEY: My friend Jordan kept saying, "But what is left out? But what's not in this book?" Which is such a helpful, I think any time you read a book...

[00:38:11] ANNE: Everybody needs a Jordan in their book club.

LINDSEY: Right?

ANNE: That's a good question.

LINDSEY: You need to know. And same thing, I think, like bringing us back to Yesteryear, when you're looking at social media, what's left out? What are you not seeing? And even analyzing our own digital input that we're receiving, I think is really important. And books like Yesteryear, and even books like Strangers can bring up. And we had great conversations around motherhood because our definitions of motherhood look very different than the way motherhood is presented in some ways in Strangers. And so we were able to have a conversation about that.

ANNE: And the legacies of the men and women in that family, I think she talks about specifically. You get to throw in a few comments about just like $18 million homes and...

[00:39:03] LINDSEY: I'm not trying to throw Belle Burden under a bus.

ANNE: Who gets custody of the yacht club.

LINDSEY: ...because she's already been thrown under, you know? But I mean, obviously there's this huge privilege component in that book that I think she addresses in the pages of the book. Does she address it as well as some of the news articles have? No.

ANNE: I just meant it's like a fantasy. Like it could be fun to talk about.

LINDSEY: Oh, it was so fun to talk about.

ANNE: All right, Lindsey, we are going to recap. Y'all loved, and this is your book club, because that's what we're focused on today, What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown, Untamed by Glennon Doyle, and Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke. I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman was not for you, and lately Strangers by Belle Burden has prompted an excellent conversation. I'm seeing a mix of fiction and non. Is that typical in a place you are interested in continuing in the future?

[00:40:04] LINDSEY: Yes. Overall we read mostly fiction, but it's been a while. I think part of the reason I chose Strangers was it had been a while since we'd done nonfiction. I think predominantly we will stay reading fiction and not switch to predominantly reading nonfiction, but I do like the mix. Like a couple mixed in every year of the 12 months of the year isn't a bad balance.

ANNE: Okay. And today I'm going to tell you what I hear we're looking for, and I want to hear what you would add to it. We're looking for books that may be very topical, that invite conversation on those topics without people necessarily having to read the book. And it's helpful to know that if you come to book club you might get spoilers. That's the agreement you all have arrived at. But you'd want people to be able to come, sometimes on short notice, and show up and have a great conversation that they will still be able to participate in, differently, but will be able to participate in whether or not at that moment in time they have read the book. I imagine lots of people who haven't read or finished the book leave and definitely want to read it because of the conversation.

LINDSEY: I would hope so.

[00:41:20] ANNE: So you would welcome, but I don't think it's a disqualifier not to have these, but books related to family and motherhood or that discuss big picture questions about the life stage that you all have in common and raising kids. What do we need to add? Discussable, shareable, great conversation discussability, very, very important. What else?

LINDSEY: I think you nailed it.

ANNE: Ooh, and the emotional tone.

LINDSEY: Yes.

ANNE: Okay.

LINDSEY: And with the caveat that I have to actually want to read it.

ANNE: Important note. Shannan, I hear you. Shannan, we're going to turn to you. Now readers, about half of our team reviews are What Should I Read Next? submissions, and we're looking for topics. We're looking at different life experiences and places around the world, and all kinds of variety that the actual reader is bringing to us.

[00:42:17] We're looking for books we haven't featured before, and we've been keeping an eye out for questions that maybe I'm not the best person to answer, but a team member can really speak to. Now, often this means a deep dive into romantasy or science fiction and fantasy, but Shannan, when you saw Lindsey's submission, you went, "Hang on. I have things to share."

SHANNAN: I might have some ideas. Yes.

ANNE: Handing the mic to you. Say more.

SHANNAN: Because of the Rocket City Mom Virtual Book Club that I ran for 10 years, I saw her submission, and I looked at it, I looked at the books that you liked, and I said, "Hmm, I've read some of those. Discussable. I think I have thoughts." So I sent your submission to Anne and said, "Hey, I have some ideas."

[00:43:09] Now, listening to you talk, I'm like, "I'm not sure whether these ideas are going to work for you as a whole," and I'm a little nervous about it, but I think they will. Also, we have this thing about being in Alabama. Red State. Also moms. And my book club at the time, we did shy away from the literary reads, so I thought, "I have a good list of about 60 books that Rocket City Mom has read, the Rocket City Mom Virtual Book Club read, and let me pull from those that I think might be interesting to you." So what I am presenting is backlist titles, and they would be good for your availability that you mentioned for all the members of the book club.

LINDSEY: Yes.

SHANNAN: However, if you all are readers, there is a chance that you have read some of these titles that I am going to present, on a personal level, and even maybe for book club. If you read it for book club, let me know. But on a personal level, when I looked at these selections, I said, Even if I've read it personally, I would want to reread it again for book club with the theme of motherhood, family, and those in my mind, which would make for a very different reading experience than if I just read it without that in mind. So that's a caveat I'm asking you to consider.

[00:44:40] As I was prepping this list, I'm very proud of the list, I have to say, and I kept saying, "I need to reread this. I need to reread this." And honestly, a lot of these on my list I have read twice already, and I want to reread them again. So...

LINDSEY: So if I pick them, you're just going to drive down from Huntsville to Birmingham and join the book club for the night.

SHANNAN: Don't tempt me with a good time, Lindsey. Don't tempt me with a good time. I believe the ones that I have selected will help with the theme. You can discuss on a theme. With Rocket City Mom Virtual Book Club, I always included at least one question. And remember, this was virtual and we did it typing on a computer. This was virtual before 2014 about is when we started this. But I always included a question that would get people to talking, and you didn't have to read the book to answer the question. So I'm bearing that in mind with the selections that I have here.

LINDSEY: Perfect.

[00:45:45] SHANNAN: The other thing I wanted to say about my selections are I'm leaning more toward you reading in being your full self. Not just motherhood issues. Your pick of Janelle Brown with technology and that conversation, that's great. My selections will look at more the full experience of a woman who happens to be a mother.

The Rocket City Mom Virtual Book Club really did not focus specifically on motherhood problems, but the full woman. I feel, this is my own personal soapbox, that as mothers we get kind of stuck in, ooh, mothers and children. It's always about the mother and always about the... You know, not the mother, I'm sorry. It's always about the children, and what I need to do for the child, and then I have the husband over here who's also, you know, needy and needing things. And a lot of what I read is mothers losing themselves. So my picks are going to be more toward that full self... and not just mother. So those are the little caveats that I have for my selections. I hope they work for you.

LINDSEY: No, I think that's great.

SHANNAN: Okay. Okay.

[00:47:05] ANNE: Okay. Shannan, love your criteria. What is your first recommendation for Lindsey?

SHANNAN: Okay. So I read a lot of nonfiction, Lindsey, and I love a good memoir. So I will say, if you have not, and this is a bonus pick, I'm starting with a bonus, if you have not read any Mary Laura Philpott... Okay, you're nodding. I can see you.

LINDSEY: I am. Sorry.

SHANNAN: Have you read any Mary Laura Philpott?

LINDSEY: Our book club did Bomb Shelter early on.

SHANNAN: Okay, good.

LINDSEY: And then maybe also I Miss You When I Blink.

SHANNAN: Great. Okay. So the main one that I have that's nonfiction, is Year of Yes: How to Dance, Stand in the Sun and Be Your Own Person by Shonda Rhimes. Have you read this one, Lindsey?

LINDSEY: I have not, and the book club hasn't either.

[00:47:59] SHANNAN: Awesome. So for those who don't know, this book came out in 2015. Shonda Rhimes is the force behind Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, and most recently Bridgerton. I am bringing this because she's also a woman of color, to bring some diversity to the book club selections, and it was the very first book that the Rocket City Mom Virtual Book Club read when we started it in 2014, 2015, so it has a special place in my heart.

It is about Rhimes' year-long commitment to saying yes to things that she would have normally said no. I was definitely with a newborn at the time when I read this book. And I was like, "No to everything. I am floundering. I can barely keep my head above water." But it was so great. It's funny. Laugh out loud funny. I was reading it and my husband had to stop asking me what was so funny, because he was asking me, like, every few minutes, and I'd be like, "This," and then, you know, finally he was like, "Okay, that's a funny book. I don't need to hear about all of that."

[00:49:19] But it's also poignant. I will say it's small as well. It's easy to read because Shonda Rhimes writes in a very conversational style. She could be sitting right next to you. The stories and anecdotes and chapters are very short. As a mom, it's great. You can pick it up and put it down. You can discuss, as you described when you were discussing Untamed. You can just read a story or a chapter and then have something to talk about. So that's what I think why I'm thinking it would be great for you.

The stories are about her life and how she became Shonda Rhimes, but also ultimately it's about taking care of oneself, and as moms, that's something we tend to leave out a lot. Including health, being the good girl, being afraid, and of course, motherhood. This is a very easy path to entry for a conversation. Highly, highly discussable. There's some things that I was like, "I'm not sure I agree with that," and then there were some things where like totally get that, changed my perspective on. I always love books that make me think differently about something. And there was a lot of that.

[00:50:34] While I was preparing for this, I was reviewing the book, and I noticed all of my highlights, and I was like, "Wow, I need a reminder about this stuff," because I think in the 10 years-ish that I have first read it, I've forgotten it. So I think that would be great for your book club.

Shonda Rhimes also reads the book, and though I haven't heard it on audio, it seems like it would be really great for moms who are trying to get everything done and still participate.

LINDSEY: Oh, that's great. I think something I failed to mention is that we have a number of moms that are audio-only or frequently do audiobooks or mix them in. We have a run club right now. I'm a reluctant new runner due to the FOMO that I have over not running with my friends, and I have recently joined the audiobook while running crowd. So it's great to know that there's a good one on audio.

[00:51:39] SHANNAN: Yes, I think this would be good. Anne, have you read this one on... Do you have any experience on audio?

ANNE: This was in the Summer Reading Guide a very long time ago when it first came out.

SHANNAN: I've forgotten that.

ANNE: But I read the print.

SHANNAN: Okay.

ANNE: But it's compact and punchy and packed with stuff you want to talk about with your friends, or your new friends, or the people you're connecting with for the first time through a book.

LINDSEY: I think it sounds great. I'm really excited. Because I don't know that I would have gone... I wouldn't have gone that far back in the summer reading guide for some reason. Because I've looked through past ones, but maybe in the process of looking I just get stuck with great ideas and I'm like, "Oh, I'm only in 2019."

[00:52:22] ANNE: And then you could have a movie night and watch Scandal together. Or at least the first episode.

SHANNAN: Or Bridgerton.

LINDSEY: Or Bridgerton. Yeah. We could do a... Okay, this is great. We could do... Y'all, I love Bridgerton. You don't even know how much I love some Bridgerton. So this would be an easy way to do a Bridgerton-themed night without actually making people read Bridgerton.

SHANNAN: It would. It would. Very.

ANNE: I hear y'all like a theme.

SHANNAN: This book was written before Bridgerton, so keep that in mind as well. All right. So that was Year of Yes.

ANNE: What else sounds good for Lindsey's book club?

SHANNAN: Okay. So, man, have you all read What Alice Forgot by Liane Moriarty?

LINDSEY: I have read What Alice Forgot, but our book club, at least this iteration of this book... I think... okay, I have read What Alice Forgot. I do not think our book club has.

SHANNAN: Okay.

LINDSEY: That's the one where she falls on the treadmill. Correct?

SHANNAN: Yes.

LINDSEY: Has amnesia.

[00:53:22] SHANNAN: Alice hits her head, develops amnesia, and can't remember the last 10 years of her life. I will have to say, this one might have warranted the most discussion in our book club. The premise of… she's in the gym, but when she wakes up, she's like, "Why am I in the gym? I hate the gym. And why am I..." You know, very, very thin. You know? And she finds out that she's getting divorced, you know, and she has three kids. She was pregnant with the first one at the time that she remembers, and she's lost the entire decade. And she thinks she loves her husband, but now she's getting a divorce. How did that happen is...

I mean, you could just talk about this for days with a book club. It is so highly discussable, and it is a page-turner. If you start it, you will probably have to finish it. I do not think this is one that everyone would need to have read to discuss, which is one of the reasons why I'm bringing it to you. And it really, really, really makes you think about 10 years before. For me, Buddy Man was a baby. I was in the thick of it. Like, how have things changed with my marriage and my relationships with my friends, etc., etc. Anne, I can see... Now y'all are getting behind the scenes. I can see Anne wants to say something.

[00:54:57] ANNE: Well, I'm just thinking about 10 years before when I finished my library book on the couch in one afternoon. But also the question is such a good one. Like, how does your life get away from you? And how incrementally do you wander away from the things that were once so important to you?

SHANNAN: Yeah. I don't know if you're familiar with the song by Adele, Go Easy On Me, Baby, but she talks about, "I didn't have the chance to choose what I chose to do." That is a line in how you just kind of shift away by degree, and then you wind up somewhere that you never really thought of.

LINDSEY: Somewhere totally different.

SHANNAN: Totally different than where you were aiming. This book brings that to the fore, and I think that a conversation with other mothers about life and what they thought and how they imagined things would be very good for a whole person, full self-book club conversation.

[00:55:56] LINDSEY: I love that. And I really love that that is, number one, a backlist title that will be easier for people to get, but that it's a book I'm more familiar with, because I've read it, and since often my... I love having a busy reading life, but often I do have a busy reading life. And so it being a book that I've read before and that some other moms have probably read before could be a really fun way.

Plus, I would love to be a re-reader, and most of the time I'm just not because I move on to the next and on to the next. And so intentionally rereading with the book club, with so many of those questions you mentioned in mind, I think would be really fun for me as a reader.

SHANNAN: Awesome.

LINDSEY: And we've established that's half the point of the book club. Selfishly.

SHANNAN: Okay.

ANNE: Sounds good.

[00:56:58] SHANNAN: I have two more in mind, but these are, as Anne said, to me, these are my not confident picks. And they're a little bit different. So...

LINDSEY: I'm excited.

SHANNAN: How do you feel... I was trying to decide if I'm going to pick from the two or if I'm just going to give you the two. Okay, I think I'll just give you the two. Do you guys read thrillers?

LINDSEY: We have before.

SHANNAN: Okay.

LINDSEY: I don't know that we read gory.

SHANNAN: Good. Have you read The Expats by Chris Pavone?

LINDSEY: No.

SHANNAN: All right. This was written in 2012. It is an Edgar Award winner, and it is a thriller. Kate is a newly minted but floundering stay-at-home mom. It's not a spoiler to say that she's a spy. She's a former spy, and she has given up that role to go with her husband to Luxembourg for his job. Some neighbors move around across the street. She's suspicious. Her husband starts acting weird, and before long she's just swept up in it all.

[00:58:17] I love this for your book club because it is not that heavy. You're not discussing heavy themes. It could be a more fun read. I'm thinking you probably will want most people to have read this to discuss it. But one of the things that was fascinating for me is that it's written by Chris Pavone, who is a man, and he himself became an expat and the stay-at-home parent when he moved for his wife's work.

When I was reading it, I was in the throes of, you know, that malaise of toddlers and just the relentlessness and the never-ending requests and things to do. And I really connected with the way that he wrote Kate. And then I was like, in my mind, you know, stereotypical, I'm like, "How is this man getting this so well onto the page?" Well, it turns out he's experienced it.

I thought that was an interesting dynamic, and I think that would be interesting to discuss in book club, like if a male or father had to take over this role, would he feel the same as the mothers do when they're taking over the role. Interesting, interesting conversation.

[00:59:35] When I was reviewing my notes, I discovered that I had abandoned this one before I became a mom because I couldn't relate. I was like, "Okay, ugh, duh." But then I picked it up after becoming a mom, and the rest is history. I love it so much. It was laugh-out-loud funny, and it was refreshingly absent of a lot of violence and gore. It really doesn't have that, and I really noticed that, oh, there's not that much there.

A theme or topic that could be discussed with the book club is maintaining who you are, who you were, while trying to be a mom. Of course, there's balancing the job, the husband, the kids, and it's still in your spy. It's a spy thriller, so it's fun.

There is a sequel. If you enjoyed it, you could read the sequel, which I also liked. And I also enjoyed Pavone's writing style. The way he tells a story is very interesting, and I love the way he strings sentences together. I loved it. I've read it twice after I abandoned it that first time, and I think that could just be a little fun pick for the book club.

[01:00:52] LINDSEY: That sounds really great. I actually didn't know about that one. His name is familiar to me from the podcast. I've had many a book on hold at the library, and then I think there's still... I think The Doorman is still in my Libby suspensions right now, with formats, the Kindle and the audio, because that's the best way to read, is all the formats at once. But you gotta have some library serendipity to make that happen.

SHANNAN: Okay. The final book is The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E. Harrow.

ANNE: I love that you're bringing in Alix Harrow.

SHANNAN: Are you familiar with this one, Lindsey?

LINDSEY: The title is familiar. What else did Alix Harrow write?

ANNE: Oh, a bunch of Shannan's favorite books.

SHANNAN: Yes. The Once and Future Witches-

[01:01:41] LINDSEY: Is there a really pretty cover one?

SHANNAN: Oh, yes, all of her books have really pretty covers.

LINDSEY: Okay.

SHANNAN: The Everlasting is the most recent one.

LINDSEY: Yes, Sarah Bessey put it on one of her best-of book lists. I got it from the library and didn't read it.

SHANNAN: Okay. The Ten Thousand Doors of January is Alix's debut novel. She writes a lot of short stories, and in fact, her short story, The Ransom of Miss Coraline, is fantastic for moms. I mean, just love that story. And I don't think I'm naming it correctly. We'll put it correctly in the show notes. But that is just a fantastic story for a mom.

[01:02:35] However, like I said, The Ten Thousand Doors of January is her debut, and you said you were open to surprise, so this is my surprise pick. My caveat is I cannot say too much about mommydom and motherhood, because it might spoil some things. This is one your book club will probably have to read in order to have a really great conversation. Again, might not be accessible in that way. However, I still think it could work.

It is gentle fantasy, so there is doors, there are magical things happen. But Alix has an academic background, so she weaves history, I believe this one is set... is this one set in Kentucky? It might start out in Kentucky, and magic throughout. And the way she does this, it never ceases to amaze me. So you're having conversations about colonialism, and being an oddity, and being something that people want to collect. Because it's set in 1800s where a lot of wealthy white men were going around and collecting artifacts from different countries, and weaving magic into that story is just amazing.

[01:04:02] She's not heavy-handed with what she is saying, but you can pick up little threads, and they're worth having a conversation about. Gorgeously written. I just love the way she sends strings sentence words together to form sentences. Just amazing. It may take a few chapters to get into it, because I started it twice and was like, "Hmm." But once you get in, you will keep going, because you want to know what happens. It's worth it. I love everything she writes. I'm one book away from being a completist, and I have read this one twice.

LINDSEY: Okay.

SHANNAN: Anne, you have anything to add to that? I feel like... you know, when I love a book so much, I feel like I don't do it justice when I'm trying to talk about it.

ANNE: I'll just say that I did not have a hard time getting into it, I think because I listened to the audio, which I often find it easier.

SHANNAN: Oh, awesome.

[01:05:05] ANNE: I feel immersed right away. I have more sensory input to make me feel like I'm in that world.

LINDSEY: I think that one sounds really fun, and I like that it... We've done a few fantasy... Okay, maybe really only Fourth Wing because, you know, everybody was reading it. Everybody was reading it, and so it just became this fun thing. But not a lot of mo... Well, we were about half and half. Some moms were like, "Absolutely not. I'm never doing that." And that was fine because we just had fun. But this is not that kind of fantasy at all.

SHANNAN: No.

LINDSEY: This is more… sounds like more light magical realism. Maybe?

SHANNAN: I would say so, yeah. But in a little bit deeper-

ANNE: It's a portal.

SHANNAN: ...than magical realism. I did have a magical realism pick, but I'll show you off camera.

ANNE: Thank you, Shannan. All right, I have some ideas. Do you think I can do it fast?

SHANNAN: No. But sure. All right. Let's go, Anne.

[01:06:08] ANNE: Lindsey, not backlist, but Dolly All the Time by Annabel Monaghan.

LINDSEY: Oh, it's so good.

ANNE: Have you read it already?

LINDSEY: I read it. The book club did not.

ANNE: Here's what I like about that for book club. Well, okay, in Modern Mrs Darcy Book Club this summer, one astute reader pointed out that our accidental theme we hit upon that was invisible to me until she highlighted it was we had three books in which absent mothers featured prominently in the story by their absence, either because the adult daughter consciously wanted better for herself and her own children and her relationships, or because she was just knocked down by this void in her life and either could or couldn't see how it was harming her, but didn't know what to do about it.

The other two books were Sisters of a Halved Heart by Tara Roy and The Great Wherever by Shannon Sanders. But I like Dolly All the Time because it's romance and it's fun.

LINDSEY: Oh, it's so fun.

[01:07:04] ANNE: One of my favorite parts of the book is where... Dolly loves to bake, and she talks about how one of the best ways she knows to show love is to leave the butter on the counter overnight, and wake up in the morning, and cream it together with eggs and flour and sugar, and make something delicious. And I want to come to the book club where everybody whips up something delicious and brings it, and we all get to share.

LINDSEY: That would be really fun. It might actually in reality look more like everybody picking something up from Trader Joe's. But...

SHANNAN: Still delicious.

LINDSEY: But would also love the homemade version.

ANNE: I feel like a Trader Joe's act... Or, no, I feel like a Trader Joe's run can also be an act of great love-

LINDSEY: Oh, absolutely.

ANNE: ...or and friendship. So I would love that for you all. There's so much fun stuff to discuss. And she's the parent to a tween who she wants good things for. Oh, you know what I love about this book? Is that Dolly takes good care of herself and takes good care of her kid. They are not in competition-

LINDSEY: She does.

[01:07:59] ANNE: ...in the story. I love for you really anything by Elizabeth Acevedo. I think I've had her on the brain because I talked about her work not too long ago on the podcast, and I read her new one that I... Let me think. When is this airing? I will have talked about in Fall Book Preview by the time y'all are listening to this episode. But I love Clap When You Land for you all.

The thing about YA novels is you get old, and you read them like the grownup you are. And you might see yourself in the role of the parent or see how these children's actions and thoughts, and how the presence or absence of the adults in their lives are messing with them. And I think you can learn a lot about yourself as a parent when you think about what it is you need and have gotten or need and don't get.

But, oh, also she is incredible on audio. She's a poet. So good with the rhythm, reads her own work. Amazing. But this was inspired by and is dedicated to the memory of the passengers on the American Airlines flight that crashed in like November 2001. At the time, everybody thought, "Oh, is it terrorism?" And it wasn't terrorism, it was a terrible accident. But the plane crashed, and I believe killed all passengers at this moment in time.

[01:09:17] So that's the historical leaping off point. But Acevedo imagines two teenage girls unknown to each other because their father has been living a double life, going back and forth between the DR and the US. So this ends up being a story about secrets and sisterhood and family, and the good things a parent can give to a child even while failing the child in massive ways.

You get to see hidden resources in the face of great loss and surprising joy, and just a thorny mess of a situation. Like, what if, and then what do you do next? But there's so much to potentially talk about here.

Then finally, I'm wondering about some vintage Taylor Jenkins Reid. The book I have in mind is the last one she wrote before she took her career in entirely different direction. And I've said before, I'm still so curious about the backstory behind this pivot. But the book is One True Loves. It was the last one published before The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo. But One True Loves, have you read it?

[01:10:24] LINDSEY: I have not. It's another one that is currently in my Libby suspense list.

ANNE: What? How? Okay, amazing, discussable premise. You do not have to have read the book to know... And also, part of what might feel a big spoiler is baked into the plot. You're going to talk about it immediately. But it's about this woman who meets her husband, I don't remember how young, but meets her husband, they're in love. I think this one came out in 2014. It's about a young woman who is in love with her husband. They're adventurous. They travel the world together. I think they might work for a travel magazine thing. And he is on a helicopter alone when it goes down over the Pacific. He's dead, no question. She mourns. She goes on with her life.

There's this amazing, beautiful favorite scene I still think of often where her husband just died. She reads a book in which the husband dies, and she's like, "I hate everything. Everything is terrible. My books have failed me. This is awful." Oh, her parents own a bookstore, which is super fun, and the plot...

LINDSEY: Oh, fun.

[01:11:30] ANNE: ...you know, fun little details. But then she comes downstairs one night, and her parents are reading a big stack of novels, and they can hand them to her with confidence all at once and say, "No husbands die in these books. We love you." Aw. So sweet. But it turns out after she has gotten her life together and finally healed a little bit and is moving on and maybe finding love again, her husband's not dead. He comes back. And then you got to talk about it with all your book club friends.

LINDSEY: Yes. Yes. And again, you know, someone who's read the book can give that pitch that you just gave, and even if people show up and they're like, "Oh, I didn't get to... you know, I'm just here for the fun and the vibes," they can say like, "Oh my gosh, if that happened to me, X, Y, Z." Or you can learn a little bit about people if it's like, "Oh, if that boyfriend you had in college that you thought you were going to marry.", you know? I think it can tell you a lot about people. But yeah, I think that sounds very fun.

ANNE: And if that sounds sensational, underlying the dilemma is, how do we become the people we are? Like, how do the good and bad things we've been through shape us and make... Like, would we be the same person if that wonderful thing didn't happen to us, but also if that tragedy didn't befall us?

[01:12:59] LINDSEY: Those are the best kind of questions.

ANNE: Yeah. All right, Lindsey, we talked about a lot of books today. Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes, What Alice Forgot by Liane Moriarty, The Expats by Chris Pavone, The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E. Harrow, Dolly All the Time by Annabel Monaghan, Clap When You Land by Elizabeth Acevedo, and number seven, One True Loves by Taylor Jenkins Reid. That's not even all the books we talked about. That's just our final list that you haven't read in book club. What are you thinking? How are you feeling? What might be on the horizon for book club?

LINDSEY: Probably all seven of them at this point. Y'all just made my life a lot easier for the next seven months. But the first thing I thought when Shannan shared Year of Yes was how perfect that would be for January.

SHANNAN: Yes, absolutely.

[01:13:52] LINDSEY: I mean, just very stereotypical, right? Like, you're starting a new year, that's a year of yes, but I love that sort of lineup of books with calendar markings. I mean, that one, I know... I've already mentally slotted it into... I know exactly what we're doing. In January, we're doing Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes.

SHANNAN: So glad to hear it.

LINDSEY: And I hope other people will do it with me.

SHANNAN: So glad to hear it.

ANNE: That sounds amazing. We are happy to help. This has been a pleasure. Shannan, thank you for joining me.

SHANNAN: Thank you for having me.

ANNE: And Lindsey, thank you so much for bringing yourself and your book club request our way.

LINDSEY: It was so much fun. I wish the whole book club could have been here.

ANNE: Next time.

[01:14:43] Hey, readers. I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Lindsey today, and I would love to hear what you think she should read next. Find Lindsey on Instagram at the links in our show notes, where we've also collected the full list of titles talked about today. That list is at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.

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[01:15:32] Thanks to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by executive producer Will Bogel, Media production specialist Holly Wielkoszewski, social media manager and editor Leigh Kramer, community coordinator Brigid Misselhorn, community manager and today's co-host, Shannan Malone, and our whole team at What Should I Read Next? and Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ. Plus the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production.

Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.