Tackling a tower of unread ebooks

[00:00:00] DANIELLE PETRIE: I thoroughly enjoyed this book, and then told the whole world about it.

ANNE BOGEL: So you're the reason it sold so many copies?

DANIELLE: Absolutely, I thought it was me.

ANNE: Okay.

DANIELLE: I'm such an influencer.

ANNE: Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading, and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

[00:00:46] Readers, this episode is coming to you in early August, which means we are underway with our fifth annual celebration of Austen in August over in the Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club. For many years now, taking a cue from the author who lends Modern Mrs. Darcy its name and our love for alliteration, we mark the month of August by reading an Austen novel.

This year, it's Pride and Prejudice for the second time. We'll enjoy reading through the annotated edition together, gathering for a watch party of the 1995 BBC edition, and enjoying all things Austen all month long. We'd love to have you join us and stick around into the fall for more bookish connection and conversation. Get all the details or join us now at modernmrsdarcy.com/club.

[00:01:36] Readers, we hear from many of you that you set reading goals informed by your to-be-read stack at home, whether that stack is a literal tower of books or something that exists on a paper list or in the digital space. Today's guest has a specific and relatable goal of making progress through her library of already purchased e-books and keeping her unread list balanced against those she's already enjoyed.

Danielle Petrie lives and works in the Canadian prairies, where she also enjoys a unique hobby in her downtime as an avid swing dancer. When Danielle's not working, dancing, or enjoying the outdoors, you'll often find her enjoying her latest read. She has a particular enthusiasm for Canadian authors, as you'll soon hear.

Historically, it's been important to Danielle to keep her collection of Kindle e-books sitting at about 50% already read status. That is, she's read half of her purchased books already and has the other half still to look forward to.

[00:02:32] Lately, Danielle's balance has tipped heavily towards the purchased but not yet read end of the spectrum. When she reached out via our What Should I Read Next? submission form, she was currently sitting at 36% read, the balance unread, and told us of her desire to create a reading challenge for the purpose of reading what she already owns on her Kindle and bringing that ratio back into balance.

Today, we're going to take a look at Danielle's reading life, see what's on her Kindle and how it got there, and make a plan for her to experience reading satisfaction on several different levels. Readers, this is going to be fun. Let's get to it.

Danielle, welcome to the show.

DANIELLE: It is so great to be here.

ANNE: Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so glad you sent in a submission. I'm really looking forward to talking today.

DANIELLE: Thanks for having me.

ANNE: I feel like the first question is the hardest, but we love to give our readers a glimpse of who they're hearing from each week. Can you tell us a little about yourself?

[00:03:27] DANIELLE: I grew up in a small town a few hours outside of Edmonton, and I work right now as a pharmacy technician. I currently specialize in research pharmacy. So I took a nerdy career and made it even more nerdy by reading protocols and being very detail-oriented. It can be stressful sometimes, but I really love working with the coordinators and the nurses and the doctors and just that professional life that I get to have.

When I'm not working, I'm an avid swing dancer. So we have a dance studio here that does lessons during the week, but then they also hold social dances on the weekend. So I have this opportunity to learn how to dance and then also express that dance. I really love being able to, like, the combination of moving my body and being creative and connecting with people. Yeah, it's just the perfect hobby for me, I feel like. I obviously think everybody should do it, but that's just my bias.

[00:04:27] ANNE: I did ballroom dance club in college for maybe one semester. Swing was the best. Oh, it was so fun. I wonder if I can do that here. I can't resist clicking on every link that says, "Dancers are happier. Read about why," and how it is about the mind-body connection, and movement makes you happy, and it's collaborative, it's artistic.

DANIELLE: There are days where I'm like, "Oh, I have to go dance tonight." And then I'm like, "This is a hobby that you like," and then I leave and I'm like, "Oh, I'm so glad I went. That was amazing."

ANNE: Does this exist in its own pocket, or does that influence your reading life in ways that I just never would have considered?

DANIELLE: I've read books like-

ANNE: It's okay for it to be in its pocket.

DANIELLE: Yeah. I mean, I've read like Swing Time by Zadie Smith, and then a biography about Frankie Manning, who's kind of considered the ambassador of swing dancing. So things like that, but not... Yeah.

ANNE: Okay. So in standard nerdy fashion?

DANIELLE: Yeah, yeah.

ANNE: Okay. I love it. Danielle, tell us about your reading life.

[00:05:26] DANIELLE: I grew up... both of my parents were avid readers. I don't know if these are actual pictures or just memories, but my dad laying on a sun lounger with a book on his chest taking a nap kind of thing. My mom has seven sisters, so they all read these Christian romance books, them and my grandparents. So these books would just rotate between all eight of them. Usually they would end up on my grandparents' bookshelves with little initials in the front cover so people could remember which ones they had read and which ones they hadn't. As I grew up and was a teenager, I started reading those books as well.

And then the first series that I really remember having that was my own, and I loved these books, was this series by Robin Jones Gunn. It was the Christy Miller series. I read all 12 of those books. And then she had the Sierra Jensen series, and I read all 12 of those books. Then she had these books where Sierra and Christy were in college together, and I read all of those books. I just loved that whole universe. And that was really when I became like my own reader, I think.

[00:06:27] I did have a little stint in my 20s where I took reading so seriously, and I would only read like nonfiction and biographies. That didn't last very long though, because I just needed reading to be fun.

ANNE: Ooh. What was happening there?

DANIELLE: I think I just was trying to be a serious adult, and wanted to learn and wanted to grow, which weren't bad things, but it didn't need to be so serious, you know? Like, it could've been both.

ANNE: I think I get it. And I imagine that wasn't just about your reading life.

DANIELLE: Yeah, no, it for sure was my whole life for a point there. But yeah, now I would say I read a lot, but I really just love connecting with people through books. Like, I have organized brunches and books, or I do a reading weekend with my cousins. We did an independent bookstore crawl this year for Indie Bookstore Day. It feels like reading is this thing that you can do in a solitary space but still feel connected. You're reading alone, but you're thinking about the person you bought the book with or the person you're going to tell the book about. And I really love that aspect of the hobby as well.

[00:07:41] ANNE: What do you find yourself drawn to?

DANIELLE: I read a lot of romance plus books as my easy reading books, where they have like a little bit more story, a little bit more emotional resonance, but they don't require too much of my brain. I read literary books, like general fiction, literary fiction. I like when books take me just a little outside my comfort zone. Like, I'm not really into full-on fantasy, but there have been books like The Blackbird Cafe, I think it's called, or A Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping, like those kind of books that... they're set in mostly a world that I know, but they have a little magic to them. Those kind push me out of my comfort zone, but I really like them. Mystery books that aren't too graphic on the page, I enjoy as well, that kind of stuff.

ANNE: Okay. Now, Danielle, I'm curious about... I know you've been listening for a little while to What Should I Read Next? What brings you to the show right now?

DANIELLE: So I have a problem with my e-reader.

ANNE: A problem.

[00:08:46] DANIELLE: A problem. So I think what happened... So, okay, let me back up. I like to keep my e-reader at like about 50% read. It feels nice to finish a book and be able to buy two more. That feels like a good ratio to me.

ANNE: I apologize for what I'm about to ask. Why?

DANIELLE: I don't know. It just feels like the books aren't getting away from me. Like, the list isn't daunting.

ANNE: Okay, abundant but not overwhelming?

DANIELLE: Yeah, and then I still get the joy of buying new things because I really like buying books.

ANNE: Ah, okay. So this is like ticking several of your readerly satisfaction boxes to maintain this ratio.

DANIELLE: Yes.

ANNE: Okay, and everything that happens when you do.

[00:09:31] DANIELLE: Yes. But I think I read a couple of books that like... or picked up a couple books on my e-reader that I was like, "Ah, not right now," or, "Oh, I'm not really that interested in it." And so I set it aside, distracted by whatever library books or physical books, and I haven't really picked it up again. However, I have continued to buy Kindle deals. So my ratios are off and I'm at like 36% read or something like that, so I have some catching up to do. So I would like to do kind of a little reading project where I catch up a bit on my Kindle.

ANNE: Ooh, we love a reading project. Thank you for bringing it to me and to What Should I Read Next? So today our goal is to help you envision a plan to take that ratio from 36 to... we're getting closer to 50 is what we're aiming for?

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: Okay. You know what? I was going to ask you a bunch of questions, but what if we talk about your books first?

DANIELLE: Sure.

[00:10:30] ANNE: You know how this works. You have at the ready three books you love, one book you don't, and what you've been reading lately. Are you ready? Can we do that now?

DANIELLE: Yes.

ANNE: Okay. How did you choose these for today?

DANIELLE: I tried not to think about it too much. I just went through, I think it was Goodreads, looked at five-star reads, and was like, "I liked that one. I liked that one. I liked that one. This looks like a good mix."

ANNE: Okay.

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: And it feels like you.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think so.

ANNE: Okay. What's the first book you love, Danielle?

DANIELLE: The first one is The Wedding People by Alison B. Espach. I adored this book. I was hesitant going in because the premise is about somebody un-aliving themselves, and-

ANNE: I almost quit at like page 13 myself.

[00:11:19] DANIELLE: Yeah, like just considering it, and I was like, "I don't know if I want to read about this." But the way that this book... the way that people will spill to a stranger, I was all in. I was like, "Give me all the tea." And also it felt so relatable. Like, we'll do that, right? As humans, we'll be like, "Oh, like I'm not going to see you ever again. There's no purchase here, so I am going to just tell you my whole life story, and my whole unfiltered story, I guess," right? And so I just loved that aspect, and then obviously the relationships that develop throughout that. I thoroughly enjoyed this book and then told the whole world about it.

ANNE: So you're the reason it sold so many copies?

DANIELLE: Absolutely. I thought it was me.

ANNE: Okay.

DANIELLE: I'm such an influencer.

ANNE: But I think many readers had the experience we did. Maybe not the experience like, "Oh, gulp, do I want to read this?" Does this count as a romance plus for you, or do you think of this as being something different?

[00:12:24] DANIELLE: No, I do think of it as being something different.

ANNE: The publisher described it as a literary beach read, which I thought was a fun phrase.

DANIELLE: Oh, okay. Oops.

ANNE: I mean, I'm not saying that like, yes, that's official, we could enter it in the dictionary, but I did think that was an interesting phrase. Okay, I'm going to file that away. But I do want to note the dark humor in there really worked for a lot of readers.

DANIELLE: Yeah, they somehow took a heavy topic and made it accessible in a way that it didn't feel oppressive.

ANNE: I'm ready for her to write another one. I don't imagine... no, I've seen your spreadsheet. You don't have any Alison Espach on your Kindle, so we're not going to talk about the other options. I really am going to try today to not talk about books that aren't on your e-reader, because I don't feel like that's going to help you with your goal.

DANIELLE: Fair.

ANNE: Okay. Danielle, what's the second book you love?

[00:13:23] DANIELLE: The second one I love is You Are Here by David Nicholls.

ANNE: Mm-hmm. Tell me more.

DANIELLE: I was looking at my own review of this book, and it basically said, "I don't think this is necessarily a five-star read for everyone, but it's a five-star read for me." And I think that that was me just identifying that it's like, this book isn't going to be like this well-written, well-conceived book for the whole world, that the whole world's going to like or whatever, but I really loved it.

I loved that the protagonists were a little bit older and had lived a bit. I loved that it was set outdoors and that they were like walking through the English countryside. I loved the romance of it, but it felt like a romance book. I've read a lot of romance books, and I felt like one that just had a different feel to it. I don't even know if it was just more realistic and less fluffy or what. I don't know exactly what the term would be for it, but it felt a little bit different than maybe the other books that I've read, and I really liked it.

[00:14:30] ANNE: Is it fair to say it's a little moody, little broody? Maybe that niche market is those who would appreciate grammar and copy editing jokes about improving erotica?

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: Because that's her job, and I loved it so much. I think a high school, although they don't call it high school in the UK, history teacher, so he's got material, too.

DANIELLE: Their banter was so good.

ANNE: Okay. I really enjoyed... Not the point, but I really enjoyed this as well.

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: Danielle, what's your third love?

DANIELLE: My third book I love is Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb. This book, for me, one, I just think we should normalize therapy for people, and I think it is becoming more normalized, but I think it's books like this that help maybe somebody who feels nervous to go to maybe get an insight on what it could look like. But again, there's the serious side of it of like... it's really nice to hear people's stories and to get to know people and to know that maybe you're not alone on your own inside thoughts. But also, it was a bit of a tell-all, and I just... Tell me more. Tell me more about people's problems and what they're going through.

[00:15:55] That sounds kind of gossipy. Maybe I do like a little bit of gossip, but I do also like the opportunities for empathy and stuff as well, the opportunities to know other people's stories and have a little bit more space and grace for the way that people behave, because we don't know what people have been through, right?

ANNE: Okay, I'm not sure that this is about things being gossipy that appeal to you, but I have other ideas as well. So we'll talk about those. But first, tell me about the book that wasn't right for you. How did you choose this one?

DANIELLE: I just kind of went to the most recent book that was like a one or two-star read for me, and was like, "Sure, that one will do." I really tried to not overthink the books because otherwise I probably never would have submitted, basically.

ANNE: Well, I appreciate that. I'm glad you didn't.

DANIELLE: So I picked Jackpot Summer by Elyssa Friedland.

[00:16:52] ANNE: Did it not align with your taste? Was the timing wrong? Was it about topics you don't want to read about? Where was the mismatch?

DANIELLE: I really loved the premise of this book. I love family relationships, and this one felt like it was going to be a little bit messy family drama, and it was, but I felt like the timing was wrong for me. I wanted more time spent on character development and a growth narrative.

ANNE: Tell us a little bit about what this story's about.

DANIELLE: Jackpot Summer is about a family that wins the lottery, and I believe it's three siblings win the lottery, and the fourth sibling didn't go in on it. And so then it's kind of their adjusted family dynamics to these winnings and how the winnings affect each person individually, but also how it affects the family relationships. I would say I liked it for about the first third of the book, and then the middle section was just about how awful everybody was. And it just kept doubling down on how awful everybody was. And then all of a sudden everybody had like one intervention moment where somebody called them out, and then all of a sudden they were all better again.

And I just wanted more of a growth character development kind of thing instead of just a magical, "And now they're all better." And I'm like, "I don't think that's how being a human works."

[00:18:17] ANNE: You were talking about how you really enjoy books where there is character development and emotional resonance.

DANIELLE: Yes.

ANNE: And that's the version of the story that you were hoping for.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think so.

ANNE: Okay, that's helpful. Danielle, what have you been reading lately?

DANIELLE: Yeah. So I have been on a bit of a kick of reading Canadian authors. Ooh,

ANNE: I love it. Do tell.

DANIELLE: I don't think I did this intentionally, but I will always seek out Canadian authors, but just this last month I've read a bunch of them.

ANNE: Danielle, this American would really love to hear you, an Edmonton dweller, like, when you think, "I want to read Canadian authors," what do you hope to find? What do you expect to find? Would you talk to me about reading Canadian authors?

[00:19:07] DANIELLE: I think reading Canadian authors, part of it comes from just the idea of being seen in a book or being able to read about spaces that I am aware of, but maybe from a different angle. So like an immigrant's experience in Canada would really be something that captures my attention, or something set on the Canadian prairies. I'm like, "Okay, I want to read about that." There's a bit of familiarity to that.

I listen to a lot of the CBC, so the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, they have a few book podcasts that I listen to that I get books from. And then I shop at independent bookstores that always have Canadian content on their shelves. And so it's easy for me to find these things that are closer to home, and I'm going to naturally gravitate towards them.

ANNE: Well, I'm glad to hear that. So with that in mind, what have you been reading lately?

[00:20:07] DANIELLE: I listened to this book on audio. It's not a very long one, and I listened to it in a day. I just didn't put it down. It's called Searching for Terry Punchout by Tyler Hellard. It was one of the Canada Reads finalists. It's about a journalist who's... he's a sports writer, and he moved away from his hometown like 10 years ago, went to college, started his career, and never went back home. But now his sports journalism career is failing, and so he goes back to his hometown in Nova Scotia to reunite with his dad, who used to be an NHL player. And his idea is he's going to write an article about his dad for Sports Illustrated, and that's going to revive his career.

This story is about him reuniting with his dad, but it's also about him reuniting with this town. He interacts with friends who some of them treat him like he's never left, and some of them are maybe a little bit more hurt that he's never been back. And he runs into an old flame, just like a lot of different relationships that almost he didn't even remember having or wasn't maintaining.

[00:21:18] So he returns to his hometown, and he has all these relationships that he is interacting with. I think for me I'm from a small town, and I go back regularly, but there is those aspects that you're like, "Oh, what is that relationship going to be like if it hasn't been maintained? What's it going to look like now?" And it was interesting to see the different dynamics between the different relationships for him and his peers.

ANNE: That sounds really interesting.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I really liked that book.

ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. I mean, did you just say out loud you read this really fast, or was I just imagining one could?

DANIELLE: No, I listened to it on audio in one day.

ANNE: High praise.

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: What else have you been reading lately?

[00:22:03] DANIELLE: So the next one that I finished recently is called Finding Flora by Elinor Florence. This one is set in Alberta in the Canadian prairies in the early 1900s as Alberta is becoming a province. So the Homesteading Act of Canada only let men be homesteaders, and there was a couple of caveats that this author found where if a woman was a widow with underage children, she could get homesteading land, or if you were a veteran from a war.

So there were some nurses who were part of the Boer War who were veterans, so then they got given land as well. So that was like the only way women could own land. And so then this story talks about the women who were homesteaders. Obviously, it's fiction, so there became this area called Ladyville, they called it, where four different women had each their own parcel of land and were developing it, and a lot of the sexism that they went through as well as just the environmental factors of homesteading in the Canadian prairies.

I found it really interesting. I will say the history kept me in the book. The story could have used a little bit more depth, but yeah, overall it was an enjoyable read.

[00:23:23] ANNE: So not the made for you in a lab kind of book, but there was enough there to keep you interested.

DANIELLE: Yeah, for sure.

ANNE: Danielle, we've already talked about this a little bit, but what are you looking for in your reading life right now?

DANIELLE: Obviously, aside from the Kindle project, I have time to read. I am single and childless, and I have a day job Monday to Friday, so I actually have a lot of time to read, but sometimes I have troubles sitting, like getting my butt in a chair and staying there. So that is something that I would like to improve on. Sometimes that's a matter of leaving my phone inside and going outside and sitting on the patio or something like that.

I also noticed that different times of the day I can take on different books. So evening reading is for sure the least mental energy book. So the romance books and such. And then maybe if there's something more literary that I want to read, I'm going to try and read it in the afternoon or maybe on like a Saturday morning kind of thing where I have a little bit more mental energy to put in it, and just kind of... I want to be more cognizant of that. I can't start a new book while I'm laying in bed at 9:00 PM. I'll never understand what that book was about. That kind of thing.

[00:24:44] ANNE: I tried to do that last night. I just started it again this morning. It wasn't about the book. So you sent me your spreadsheet of what is on your Kindle, the read and the unread, and we... the royal we, but I think my team too, I love it when readers send me spreadsheets for a project when they want to read unread books they own in their home library or on their Libby wish list or, in this case, on their Kindle.

We've seen some spreadsheets that are dozens of pages long. And yours is just maybe four, so it's not overwhelming. I'm wondering if you've done the math to see how many books it would take without purchases in the meantime, which might not be reality at all, to bring you back up into your comfort zone as far as the percentage read is concerned.

DANIELLE: It was somewhere between 10 and 15 books. I don't remember exactly.

ANNE: How does that feel to you?

[00:25:47] DANIELLE: Like a lot. Like a lot to balance with because I also have physical books, and I also have library books. But I think if I have something that's going on my Kindle and something that's going in physical, I'm okay with that, with reading multiple books at a time. I just need to get back into reading my e-reader.

ANNE: Are there any of these that you look at and think, "Hmm, that was another life when I purchased that book, and I wish I could zap it from my Kindle"?

DANIELLE: Mostly the books that... So when you're a Prime member, you get a free book a month. And usually it's like new releases and stuff, and I accumulated a bunch, and I don't know if I read any of them. And I'm just like, "Those could go. I don't know what they're about. I don't remember." It was like I picked one out of five, but I'm not that interested in them.

[00:26:45] ANNE: Is that something you would consider doing?

DANIELLE: I didn't know you could delete things from your Kindle.

ANNE: I mean, mine's ancient, so I don't want to... I mean, on mine you just hover on the bottom of the screen, and delete permanently is an option. But I think Google is your friend. Look, if Google is still going to turn up a decent search result... We used to say Google is your friend for years. I don't know if that's actually true. But the internet knows.

Readers, you know. If you have tips for Danielle. Not saying you want to do this, Danielle, but if you might feel like you had more options if you knew how to do that, readers, would you tell us in comments, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com? We would be grateful.

Danielle, what's your order of priorities here? I can see you saying, "No, I'm not going to breathe easy in my reading life until I get my ratio back where I want it," or, "Eh, you know, the most important thing is something else entirely," for example.

[00:27:41] DANIELLE: Well, I just think my Kindle is also full of good books, and I think my priority is always to just read good books.

ANNE: I mean, I'm glad to hear that, but I'd respect whatever you said.

DANIELLE: Yeah. I would like to get it to a space where I don't feel guilty buying new things, or just generally have it in the rotation, because it is full of books that I really want to read. But yeah, I think I'm happy to make my e-reader a priority for a season.

ANNE: I mean, that's up to you. I'm not asking you to. I was wondering how important it was to you to bring it up. I keep coming back to this. Have you noticed this? Maybe I'm the one who needs bibliotherapy here. We're going to talk about this. Is there anything else you want me to know about what you like, what you don't, about your reading life, what the season looks like, anything at all?

[00:28:36] DANIELLE: I don't know if this has come through in my likes and dislikes, but I really love books around friendship and community, and especially when it's like groups of unlikely companions or being immersed in a life experience that's unlike my own, like different socioeconomic backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, sexuality, like those kinds of things. I really like connecting with humanity through reading.

ANNE: That sounds lovely. Let's take a look. Now, readers, I am pulling up Danielle's spreadsheet and... is it okay if I just rattle off some of the you haven't read yet books?

DANIELLE: Yeah, go for it.

ANNE: Okay. So you said that Romance Plus is your favorite in the romance genre. I see Susannah McFarlane, Mia Sosa, Sally Thorne, Farrah Rochon. I know there's more further down the list. I see a little bit of fantasy. There's The Fourth Daughter from Lyn Liao Butler that I've heard good things about, and that it's very much an eat, drink, and be merry kind of book, with that kind of community gathering over food and such. Haven't read it myself, though. And I see quite a few Louise Penny novels, beginning with book six. Your fellow Canadian.

[00:29:55] DANIELLE: Yeah, I bought the first book on Kindle, and then that just became how I buy Louise Penny books now.

ANNE: I gotcha. I gotcha.

DANIELLE: So I think I have one to... I don't know. Whenever they're on a deal, I buy another one, so.

ANNE: I hear you. I see some new releases like The Missed Connection by Tia Williams. I see some from last summer, like So Far Gone from Jess Walter, The Other Side of Now by Paige Harbison. I see some old Kate Clayborn and Liane Moriarty. I wandered away from romance. I see some mystery thriller, like Julie Clark, The Ghostwriter. Let's see. There's a Katrina Jackson romance. I saw several of her titles. Can I share what's jumping out at me?

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: Okay. Low-hanging fruit. You have two short stories. I think one is just about 40 pages, and the other's closer to 100, by Elin Hilderbrand. Have you read Elin Hilderbrand?

DANIELLE: I read the one she wrote with her daughter, The Academy.

ANNE: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:55] DANIELLE: Yeah, I liked that. I tried to read the one where it's like a ghost in the hotel, and I didn't get very far in that one.

ANNE: Okay. So maybe the short story is not the most obvious entry point. I don't know. But the one that really jumps out at me is the one from Mike Gayle. Have you read him before?

DANIELLE: No.

ANNE: Okay. Mike Gayle is a British author. Readers, he's been in the Summer Reading guide before. It was The Museum of Ordinary People. But he writes novels about lonely people finding each other. And The One That Got Away is a short story. It's not a short story I've read.

But I wonder if that would be a gentle and short, you know, like low-commitment entry point to an author whose ethos I think you may really enjoy. And if you do like stories of friendship and community, and you get dropped into a world, I wonder if you may enjoy him. I think he's in London now, but he often sets his story in smaller towns in the UK, which, I mean, setting isn't going to be like a surefire if you liked, let's say, David Nicholls, you'll enjoy this one. But I am noting that connection. The stories they write are very different. Mike Gayle isn't sharp. He's more earnest, but he's not without humor, and I wonder if you would enjoy that.

[00:32:16] Oh, my gosh. You know what we didn't talk about? We didn't look at your loves before we started looking at your Kindle list, but this is definitely in my head. Can we roll back and talk about the books you love and do a little recap?

DANIELLE: Oh, okay.

ANNE: So as I'm looking at your books, I'm filtering through what I think you'll enjoy, but I didn't say that out loud. So you really loved The Wedding People, You Are Here, Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb, and I noticed that all these books have a strong element... I mean, they're funny. Is that something you really like in your books?

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: They're also very frank in their tone, and I think all of them. We only talked about three loves, so maybe this is coincidence, but they are very much about confronting the reality you find yourself in, even the nonfiction. Like, you had this idea of what the world was going to be, this is where you are, you, either the protagonist or the narrator, is able to look at both and see the difference and talk about it in a forthright way. I'm just interested in your thoughts on those elements. Is there something there? Am I making this up? Is there something that you really enjoy? Is that a coincidence?

[00:33:29] DANIELLE: I don't know that I've ever thought about it that way, but it's not surprising, I guess. I'm interested in people's lives. I'm interested in their experiences. I'm interested in the journey more than the destination, like those kind of things. Definitely love having serious chats with people about what's really going on in their lives and stuff like that, so for books to reflect that isn't surprising.

ANNE: Like, what's the truth under it all, and what do we do about it?

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: Okay. Now I really want to interrogate Jackpot Summer and see how that does or doesn't jive with what is the actual truth, and how do we live in light of that? I'm wondering if that answer was not satisfying or if that was not the question being asked in the book.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think that the problem was just so topical in Jackpot Summer, and then they didn't get into, like, "Why are the people really the way that they are?" It was more just like, "Oh, money made them terrible, and then they got better."

[00:34:26] ANNE: So when the siblings get their money or don't, as I recall, the question was, "Now we have this money, and we're supposed to spend it," not, "Oh, gulp, what happens next, and why, and what does it all mean?"

DANIELLE: Yeah, and like what really matters to me and what do I want to, yeah, use this for.

ANNE: I mean, I enjoyed that book. I thought that part was really juicy. And also, I totally see what you're talking about when you pick up different books for different reasons. So this is not the only gateway onto Danielle's actual AM reading pile, metaphorical or otherwise, but books that are funny, books that are frank and forthright, and books that are about looking at reality straight on and saying, "Now what?" is definitely something I'm going to be looking for in your books.

[00:35:19] So Mike Gayle, a little earnest, but I like him for you, especially as that confronting reality, frank and forthright, merges very nicely with unlikely companions coming together because of a shared felt need, whether, whether or not the reader perceives that felt need before they do. I could not help but notice that there are two unread L. M. Montgomery books on this Kindle list. Tell me more.

DANIELLE: I never read her until I was an adult. We had the Anne of Green Gables VHS series that I watched multiple times, but I never read any of her books until I was an adult, and then once I read one, I was like, "I must read more."

ANNE: What did you first read as an adult?

DANIELLE: Oh, just Anne of Green Gables. And then there's-

[00:36:18] ANNE: Emily of New Moon is on your Kindle.

DANIELLE: Yeah. There's another one I read of hers, but I can't remember what it is. Is it Blue Castle? Is that her?

ANNE: It is The Blue Castle.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I've read that one.

ANNE: It makes perfect sense as a standalone entry point.

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ANNE: Okay. Now, you are the boss of your reading life, but the assignment I would like to give you is read the unread L. M. Montgomery on your Kindle. Emily is not as funny as Anne of Green Gables, because Anne Shirley is funny. Emily is very earnest, but also she... I mean, just give it a few pages. I don't think you'll want to put it down.

DANIELLE: Okay.

ANNE: I'm not going to say more.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I feel like I twist my rubber arm on that, like... on my Kindle for a reason.

ANNE: But readers, these editions of these very old L. M. Montgomery books, you know, like classic Canadian literature — is that too fancy a word? — yeah, continue to be read by readers 100-plus years later for a reason, youths and adults.

[00:37:19] The Blue Castle, again, another wonderful standalone entry point, but, yeah, this is a series you can really fall in love with. And yeah, I hope you will, and then you might want to buy more Kindle books. But... readers, also free and 99-cent Kindle editions are widely available. Also, your library, no matter where you are, is likely to have Emily of New Moon, Anne of Green Gables, the first books in each series. Emily's only a trilogy, so it's a smaller commitment, but emotional resonance, character development, I mean, you got it, Danielle.

DANIELLE: Awesome.

ANNE: For romance plus, now I don't know if this is how either of the authors would describe their books, but you have some Elinor Lipman and you have some Liane Moriarty. And the Liane Moriarty on here is What Alice Forgot. It's one of my favorites. And I don't know what you know about this book. Do you remember how you happened to buy it?

DANIELLE: I think I just recognized the title, and it was probably on sale. I've read one of her books before.

[00:38:23] ANNE: Yeah. What Alice Forgot is one of her definitely more lighthearted and whimsical books. And it's quite old. I mean, I remember inhaling it on the couch in a day back in like 2012 or 2013 maybe. But in it, a woman, a hard-driving... She might be an attorney, type A, laser-focused, in a failing marriage because she doesn't have time for anything else except her professional dreams, as I recall... If I'm botching this, I'm so sorry, readers, falls off the bike at her spin class, bumps her head, wakes up, and doesn't remember anything that happened in the last 10 years. And she wakes up, and she expects to be young and optimistic and buoyant and happily married, and that's not the life she's living.

The plot is a little ridiculous, and definitely it's frothy and page-turnery. I just like blitzed through this book and then found myself thinking about the very serious questions this book raises forever. Like I read this almost 15 years ago, I think at this point, and still can remember... I mean, the essential questions at the heart of this book come immediately to mind. Hard writing makes for easy reading. That's a real skill to write something that goes down like candy but then that really gets to important questions in life. It's funny. It's frank. She's forced to confront her reality in a very inventive way. How's this sounding?

[00:39:54] DANIELLE: Very good. I think I'm picturing just like, yes, sitting on the patio on a summer day and being like, "Yep, we're just going to immerse ourselves in this world for a little bit."

ANNE: That sounds good to me. And I love that you have Elinor Lipman on your list. I think you had some that you've also read from her as well as some you haven't. Does that sound right?

DANIELLE: I have read some of her books, and if you ask me what they are specifically, I won't remember the titles. But yeah, I have enjoyed the ones that I've read before.

ANNE: Well, I'm glad to hear that. And she's prolific. I don't even want to guess at what you might have read, but On Turpentine Lane is one that's unread on your Kindle. And Elinor Lipman is... I mean, she has likable characters who are often quirky, offbeat. They're funny. They're not always... I mean, she pushes the bounds of reality. Like, really? Like, did she really purchase a house where the owner's second and third husbands fell down the basement stairs and died? Like, did that, did that really happen, Elinor Lipman? Like, no. But it still feels like it's set in the recognizable world that we live in.

[00:41:08] This happened to be my first Elinor Lipman book. It came out about 10 years ago. And it's about a woman in a job she doesn't love. She's doing grunt work for the private school she went to as a kid. She's, like, writing thank-you notes to donors or something. Her boyfriend is pretty terrible. She's basically paid for him to go on this hike to find himself, and keeps sending selfies of him with ex-girlfriends. Her dad is going through an identity crisis. Her parents' marriage isn't doing great, and she gets a handsome new coworker who's newly single, very funny, and the combination of the new house, family of origin in quirky upheaval, and hot new office mate turns her life upside down in a way that many readers find pretty fun to read about.

DANIELLE: That does sound very interesting.

ANNE: The dialogue in this is really great. Elinor Lipman does that really well. It's funny, it's upbeat, it's character-driven. I hope you're happy with their arcs. Is this sounding like it ended up on your Kindle for a reason?

[00:42:21] DANIELLE: Yeah, I think so. All of those words you're using feel like... I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I want to... Yeah, I want to read that."

ANNE: Okay. Good, good, good. I'm glad to hear it. Now, for more books that are funny, frank, and looking at reality head-on, I love These Heathens For You by Mia McKenzie, So Far Gone by Jess Walter. The Other Side of Now puts a magical realism spin on the confronting reality.

An unhappy actress in Los Angeles takes a flight to go visit Ireland, and flies through a portal to her alternate life had she gone to acting school in this charming small Irish town right out of high school she dreamed of. So she lands, and she's like, "I am in the upside down. Who are all these people? Why is my best friend who died in a car wreck after graduation still alive and living here?" So she gets to live out an alternate version of her life.

[00:43:18] You know, I never thought to compare this with What Alice Forgot, but the books have a lot in common with how they have an unrealistic setup. That would never happen, but ask, like, big questions about what does it mean to live a satisfying life? What do we do when we realize we've gone off course? Like, how do we course correct? And I think that could be interesting.

But I don't want you to miss good books on your Kindle just because they are not funny, and you do have so much good stuff here. Like Brooklyn by Colm Tóibín is earnest. It's not funny. But the prose is so lovely. And he writes so poignantly about immigrant experiences and the homesickness that comes with your family being an ocean away. You mentioned that you love Canadian immigrant stories, and this is not that. It's called Brooklyn because that's where the action takes place, and it's about Irish immigrants making a new life in America. But I imagine it ended up on your Kindle for a reason as well, and I doubt it's because it was your free book.

[00:44:17] You had Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zauner on here. I mean, entering an unfamiliar world, character development, emotional resonance. I mean, this is a sad book about grief, but she is such an engaging companion. I found it to be so well-told. I imagine this ended up on your Kindle for a reason.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think it was in one of the Summer Reading Guides, yeah?

ANNE: Yes. I'm fascinated by the overlap between music and written art. I don't think it's any surprise that she's a wonderful lyrical writer. I read some interview or something where she talked about her editing process and said that her editor had made such an amazing difference in her book. And it was just little notes like, "Michelle, I want to hear more about the weather." And Michelle Zauner said that she went through and wrote in such a way that the characters could really experience the world that she was moving through, not just the emotional journey alone, and how it really added depth and heft to the story. I thought that was fascinating.

[00:45:26] DANIELLE: I do just love a person's story. I mean, this one's obviously a more emotional experience, which is just going to draw me in more, so I'm, yeah, sure I'll love this.

ANNE: Yeah. You have good stuff here. You do have some stuff that makes me think "that definitely was one of the free books," right? Because I'm, I'm struggling to see the match between the reading life... I mean, we didn't, of course, get an entire picture in our short time together, but it's not obvious to me what the connection is.

Maybe it won't be obvious to you either. Maybe you'll pick it up and you'll realize, like, "Oh, I remember exactly what appealed to me here."

DANIELLE: I do try, I mean, maybe less with my Kindle because of those free books and stuff, but I often will forget why I picked a book, but I just try to trust my past self that wanted that book or recognized that book and be like, "Okay, let's just see what it ends up being."

ANNE: I love that for you. What I want to know, Danielle, is how are you feeling about your Kindle challenge? Is a plan emerging? What jumps out to you as likely priority reads?

[00:46:30] DANIELLE: I think I'm going to start with this short story because I think you're right, it'll be a good entry point, and then try to pick something that might be a little bit more fast-paced to just really sit and immerse myself for a day kind of thing. Get the ball rolling again.

ANNE: I love that. Danielle, thank you for coming on the show. I really enjoyed our conversation today.

DANIELLE: Awesome. Thank you. Me too. This was really lovely.

ANNE: Hey, readers. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Danielle, and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.

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And thank you to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by executive producer Will Bogel, Media production specialist Holly Wielkoszewski, social media manager and editor Leigh Kramer, community coordinator Brigid Misselhorn, community manager Shannan Malone, and our whole team at What Should I Read Next? and Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ. Plus the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production.

Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.