What should I read this summer?

[00:00:00] ANNE BOGEL: So you don't know what the books are.

ASHLEY CORNELIUS: Yeah.

ANNE: I'm going to tell you three books today, and I'll be so curious to see if stuff jumps out at you from the Summer Reading Guide that just would not have occurred to me based on our conversation.

ASHLEY: Yeah, that'll be really interesting. I'm very excited about having books to keep an ear out when we're listening or watching.

ANNE: Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

[00:00:53] Readers, our Summer Reading Guide is a big deal around here. Although every year I'm eager to remind readers that it's not a list of books you should read, it's a list of books you could read. And my hope is that in the guide I give you the information you need to choose titles that will have you feeling oh so very satisfied with how you choose to spend your precious reading time this season. Today's guest knows that reading is personal, and that's why she's here to get my help figuring out which titles from the 2026 guide she should prioritize.

Ashley Cornelius lives in Santa Barbara with her family, where she's a high school science teacher. She loves to talk books with friends, no surprise there, but she's also into sewing, crocheting, and working in her garden. Ashley reached out to tell me about the books she's loved and one she didn't from past Summer Reading Guides, and wondered if I could help her select books from this year's guide that might fit her desired summer vibe. Would I ever.

[00:01:49] Today, I'm helping one particular reader decide what to read next. But more than that, I'm walking you through the thought process of considering what to read next in light of what you already know about your reading life. I hope after listening, you'll feel even more empowered to choose your next summer read. Let's get to it.

Ashley, welcome to the show.

ASHLEY: Hi, thanks for having me.

ANNE: Oh, the pleasure's mine. We were so excited to get your very timely submission in our inbox. Readers, we don't usually talk extremely specifically about recording dates because it doesn't matter, but today it does. Ashley and I are talking on Tuesday, May 12th, which is significant because the Summer Reading Guide comes out in almost exactly 48 hours on Thursday, May 14th, and Ashley's submission was Summer Reading Guide-specific.

So, Ashley, you haven't heard the guide yet, or read or any of it. I happen to know what's in it, and that's going to be important as we talk about your summer reading today. But thanks for bringing that query to the show. I'm excited to dig in.

[00:02:50] ASHLEY: Yeah. I'm happy to get more time with the Summer Reading Guide.

ANNE: And early.

ASHLEY: Yes, very.

ANNE: All right. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Would you start by just giving our readers a glimpse of who you are? Tell us a little about yourself.

ASHLEY: Yeah. So, I live in Santa Barbara with my husband and my teen son, and we have two dogs. And we're very excited because we're going to go pick up my daughter from her first year of college this weekend, so we'll-

ANNE: Oh, congrats.

ASHLEY: Yeah, we'll be back to our full family. It'll be really fun. I teach high school science, and I do a lot of work with my teachers' union, so that's where most of my time goes. And then in my outside of work time is with my church and I do a lot of crafty things like sewing and crocheting and working in my garden.

And then this last year I've been really enjoying doing some ocean swimming with a few of my friends. Also, people would probably just not even recognize me unless I mentioned that my family, my little family of four, we are passionate Chicago Bears fans, and so I'm always looking forward to football season. It's kind of like the one fun end-of-summer thing that happens.

[00:04:07] ANNE: Oh, I love that for you. And I didn't expect that from Santa Barbara.

ASHLEY: Yes. Anytime we see somebody else with Chicago Bears gear, it is like we get a little head nod and... a little community.

Annie: I love that for you. Now, Ashley, would you tell us a little about your reading life?

ASHLEY: I grew up in a household full of books. My parents are big readers, and so my younger life was a lot of The Baby-sitters Club and Sweet Valley Twins. And then after I kind of graduated from that, most of my reading was shaped by what my parents had on their bookshelves. So I read a lot of Sue Grafton and Tony Hillerman, and then some fantasy with Anne McCaffrey, and The Lord of the Rings, of course.

Then after college, I kind of just read the same 40 books over and over again. I had my collection, and so I had some John Grisham and Tom Clancy and Da Vinci. Those are ones that I just rotate throughout the year, just kind of pick up the book that I was in the mood for.

[00:05:13] I was not very confident about picking up new books. I would go to the library and basically just pick out the same authors that I already knew that I liked. But then about 10 years ago, first my kids started reading chapter books, and so I had a lot of fun just, you know, reading them for them, but really it was for me, and I just got to experience more of the middle-grade books, which was really fun.

And then my friend at work started a book club, and I started listening to both the Read-Aloud Revival for book recommendations for my kids, and What Should I Read Next? for myself. I also, in the last couple years, kind of co-host a really casual book talk group at my work. With all of those combined, now I'm just filled with new books to read, and just have, yeah, just a full list of books. And then I just kind of have to force myself to reread books because I still love that, but I have so many new ones to try.

[00:06:14] ANNE: So you didn't come to reading as an adult, but it sounds like you had a major change in your reading life as an adult.

ASHLEY: Yes, exactly. Well, really, I think it was just a growing confidence in hearing other people's recommendations and being able to figure out what I thought would be a good fit for me. And I do, fortunately, love a really big variety of fiction. So, like, I will read science fiction and fantasy and romance. Although, it's interesting to me that romantasy doesn't always really connect with me, which seems weird when I like both of them separately, and then sometimes when they're together, they're not my favorite. And realistic fiction with, you know, family drama. So, I think having that big variety and just getting new recommendations from lots of different sources has really expanded what I get to read every year.

ANNE: Well, I'm so glad to hear it. Thanks for telling us about that. Ashley, what brings you to the show today?

[00:07:16] ASHLEY: Well, I just love the Summer Reading Guide. I love the whole experience. I have some friends that will get together and watch it. So-

ANNE: That's fun.

ASHLEY: Yeah, and then we'll talk about it. We'll try to get up, meet together in the middle of the summer and find out which books we really recommend to each other, and then I'll just listen to all of the podcasts that are, like, the behind-the-scenes or when your team is talking about books from the Summer Reading Guide. I don't know, I just love it. I think part of it is just the ritual of a summer for me, and a summer break from work. And so being able to connect fun reading into that.

So when I heard that it was time for the new Summer Reading Guide to come out, I was like, "I'm just going to go back and look at all of the books that I have in my old printed copies of the Summer Reading Guide, and I'm just going to do it. I'm going to treat myself for this day, and I'm going to fill out the application and see what happens."

[00:08:16] ANNE: Well, thanks for doing that. Would you tell me more about watching the Summer Reading Guide Unboxing with friends? I know people do this, and also, I would love to hear the details, because I'm doing something else at that moment in time. But I'd love to hear what you do.

ASHLEY: We've done it a few years now. I think the first time, maybe I took the day off of work and we did the morning version together live. And we, you know, just bring some tasty snacks together, and fun... coffee drinks, and just take notes while it's happening, and then we talked about it after.

The last couple years we haven't been able to watch it live, which means that then we watch it together, the recording, and then we pause it after every section and talk about every section. So, basically, double the time that we spend talking about books in the Summer Reading Guide. It's really fun having a group that we know each other's reading tastes now, and we know what we like from the Summer Reading Guide, so we know which overlapping books that we think we'll like between the three of us.

[00:09:21] ANNE: Well, thank you for telling me about that. Today, when we talk about the books you love and the ones you don't, would you tell us how you chose these?

ASHLEY: Yeah. This was another kind of fun thing is I just dug through my house to find all of the printed reading guides that I had saved. I could find the reading guides from '22, '23, '24, and '25, and I just started flipping through, looking for the ones that stood out to me, that have lasted over time. And I kinda decided that the last year's Summer Reading Guide was maybe too new, and it'd be more fun to stick to the ones that really have stood the test of time in my memory.

And so I stuck to the older ones. Well, and I also picked the books that were specific... that I only read because they were in the Summer Reading Guide. When I was flipping through, I did see other books that I loved, but either I read them later in the year or they just were books that I read mostly because another friend had recommended them. So they were all definitely books from the Summer Reading Guide.

[00:10:34] ANNE: Okay. And the question is, what should you read this year?

ASHLEY: Yes. When I'm listening to the Unboxing guide, I try to get it down to like 10 books for the summer. But of course, there's always the fear of missing out. Like, am I missing out another book that would really be the best one? And also, just, you know, can't read them all, so you're trying to get it down to those top 10. Getting your input will be really fun.

ANNE: Oh, this is so interesting. Okay, so you don't know what the books are.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ANNE: I'm going to tell you three books today, and I'll be so curious to see if stuff jumps out at you from the Summer Reading Guide that just would not have occurred to me based on our conversation.

ASHLEY: Yeah, that'll be really interesting. I'm very excited about having books to keep an ear out when we're listening or watching.

[00:11:24] ANNE: Well, I'm looking forward to seeing where your summer takes you. But first, let's talk about the books you love. You chose these because you love them from the Summer Reading Guide. What did you know you were looking for? Like, what makes a really standout reading experience for you?

ASHLEY: So during the summer, I definitely have a vibe is the... It's nice to have that word to be able to use. But I definitely have a strong vibe that I want for the summer, which is generally I don't want to be crying the whole book. I have a very low threshold for crying. Like, I will cry pretty easily in any book or movie, and I don't want to be crying the whole way through.

But when I was looking at these books, a moment of sadness and intense emotion turns out to be something that really makes something more memorable for me and stick with me. But I do like the lighter... And anything also that connects just to summer camp or places that I travel for the summer, those are things that just bring me into what I guess I call just a summer mindset of being on break or vacation.

[00:12:29] ANNE: Okay, that sounds lovely. We'll see if I get lucky with choosing locales that you maybe have traveled to or want to. Ashley, are we ready to jump into the books you love?

ASHLEY: Yeah, let's do this.

ANNE: What's the first one you chose?

ASHLEY: So the first one is The River by Peter Heller. I actually find this super interesting because I was just flipping through the summer 2022 reading guide and saw The River, and I was like, "Oh, that has to be it." But it wasn't until I was setting stuff up last night that I realized that I had actually read it in the summer of 2019. And I think I really got it just from the minimalist guide from that year.

And then I think you just had put in a few, like, older books into the 2022 Summer Reading Guide. So it was there. And I even had a note on it saying, "Oh, I loved this one," but I didn't catch it until last night, so I really read it earlier.

[00:13:28] So in The River by Peter Heller, two college friends are spending a few weeks in a very remote river trip, and starting with this fast-moving wildfire, their trip takes this dramatic turn from this peaceful time on the river and outdoors to this survival mode.

I just loved this book because of the gorgeous descriptions of their life on the river. I just felt like I was there with them. I have spent over 30 years of my life going to Southern Oregon to visit family, and we always spent a day or an evening or both on the river. And so reading his descriptions of the river, and even though I'm not a fisher, like his descriptions of how they were fishing just pulled me into that world and reminded me of what I love about being in nature, specifically on a river.

[00:14:25] I also really loved the relationship between the two friends. This book I find is a really good example of the right amount of sadness for me. While I really tend towards the lighter books over the summer, The River does have this really sad moment in it. I saw in my notes, I was like, "I wasn't really happy with the way it ended." But it still stuck with me. The sad moment didn't feel gratuitous. It really made me think about the book for a lot longer than I would've if it had been a super happy, peaceful ending.

ANNE: Okay. I'm glad this worked for you. It sounds like this was the right book for you, and also, am I hearing elements that made it a good summer read? Because I think you said in your submission that a certain amount of sadness doesn't necessarily mean you won't read it, but it's definitely going to get kicked into fall.

[00:15:17] ASHLEY: Yeah. When I was flipping through, I saw Crying in H Mart, and I had a big note on it, "Save for fall." And sure enough, I did. I read it in the fall, and a bunch of my work colleagues also read it, and I mean, it was just a wonderful book, and I loved it, but I was like, "I am not reading that over the summer." So if it's really going to deal with themes of grief or trauma, that is not going to be a summer book for me. But if it's going to take me into a world, then it is going to be more meaningful, and it's going to stick with me more than the perfect... where nothing happens. Like you want stuff to happen.

ANNE: Okay. But The River was the right amount of adventure, tension, intrigue, mystery, happenings.

ASHLEY: Yeah. I want a book that, in the summer, that I'm just going to be like, "I can just sit here for a couple hours and read or stay up late at night reading because I want to know what happens." It's definitely a sign it's a good summer book for me.

[00:16:23] ANNE: That's very helpful. Thank you. Ashley, what's the second book you love?

ASHLEY: Then from the 2023 Summer Reading Guide, I picked The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi by Shannon Chakraborty. This story starts with Amina al-Sirafi. She's a former pirate, which former... I don't know. Any kind of adventure story, I'm like, I'm in on that. She's laying low in a remote home with her 10-year-old daughter when she's approached by a woman who is really begging her and bribing her to come find her granddaughter, who has been supposedly kidnapped. And so Amina al-Sirafi gathers her loyal partners. She has to rescue her ship and crew to take off and rescue the missing granddaughter.

I love a quirky team gathering together for any kind of mission or adventure. This book is really sweet because, even though they haven't seen each other in many years, their friendship and their support of Amina I thought was really beautiful and fun.

[00:17:31] I also love seeing a female character who's a mother. The fact that Amina is torn between her love of her work on the sea, which is funny to call it work because she's a pirate, but she's missing her daughter and wants to be with her daughter, but also wants to show her this good example of what it means to be able to do something, work that you love. I just thought that really elevated this beyond just a typical adventure story for me.

Amina is also a little bit older. She has a difficulty with a bad knee, which I relate to. I listened to this one on audio. I really felt like the voice actor did a fabulous job of bringing this character to life. This is something I noticed. I just re-listened to it because a new one, or the second one is coming out soon. One thing that I really loved is that there was just the perfectly placed cuss words. I just thought it was so fun when they would just pop in at just the right moment to give an idea of how she was feeling in stressful situations.

[00:18:37] ANNE: I'm so glad you know about the new one, and that it's on your radar already. And that does come out today as we're speaking. It will already be in the world as readers listen to this. But that is The Tapestry of Fate, when Amina is called once again to the sea, and she has to find this ancient spindle that can unravel not just thread, yarn... what do spindles spin? But it can unravel time and re-spin it with a different result. And also her estranged husband is causing trouble and her family has wishes that aren't really in sync with hers, and she's gotta go figure it out.

Ashley, I remember you do about 25% of your listening, I think you said in your submission, of your reading, that is on audio. The first book was excellent on audio. It elevated the experience. And I've only listened to maybe half an hour of The Tapestry of Fate, but am already finding it so good in that format.

[00:19:37] ASHLEY: Oh, I'm so excited. I just did a subscription to Libro.fm mostly so that I could get that book on audio, so I'm really excited to hear that people are enjoying it.

ANNE: Well, I'm excited for you. It sounds like it'll go great with your crocheting and gardening, etc.

ASHLEY: Yes. Perfect.

ANNE: Ashley, what is the third book you love?

ASHLEY: So then from the 2024 Summer Reading Guide, I picked The God of the Woods by Liz Moore. This takes place at a summer camp on the East Coast, and a child has gone missing, and her brother also went missing 15 years before that.

So in order to figure out what happened to the girl, one detective is determined to find out what happened to the missing brother in order to really connect those two and figure out what's happening. I love the atmosphere of the camp, and again, the nature. I also really enjoyed the changing points of views in the chapters. That's something that I find I really enjoy in a book is when you get to know multiple characters from their point of view. And then also having both of those mysteries revealed throughout the book made it a really good page-turner for me.

[00:20:52] Another thing that I noticed when I picked out this book is that I think this is a good example of how I've used the summer book guide to find books that were amazing for me before they became really big. And so I've noticed that I'll read a book from the Summer Reading Guide with these expectations that it's just going to be a really good book for me. And then I've seen them blown up on, like, BookTok or other types of social media. And the second wave of readers reads them because other people liked them, and they might be disappointed that the book didn't match their expectation.

So I really enjoy finding the book through the reading guide and not just because everybody else liked it, because I have maybe the right level of expectation for it, and then I can just really enjoy it instead of comparing it to the hyped-up version that it becomes later.

ANNE: Ooh, I love that for you, and I love Liz Moore. I'm so glad you found this one. Have you read anything else by her?

[00:21:54] ASHLEY: I read Long Bright River. I had read that before separately and really didn't even connect. I'm not great at remembering authors, especially if there's been a long gap between them, or if I wasn't actively seeking another one. But I really enjoyed Long Bright River as well.

ANNE: Okay. I know we've talked about The Unseen World several times on the podcast. Recently I read Heft, so I know I talked about it on the blog. I can't remember if I talked about it in this space. But there's more Liz Moore waiting for you if that interests you. But neither of those books have the summer camp, wilderness mystery vibes that feel especially apt for the summer.

ASHLEY: Yeah, yeah.

ANNE: Ashley, now tell us about a book that was not right for you, and I love that you chose one from the Summer Reading Guide as well. What did you choose?

[00:22:41] ASHLEY: So this one is from the 2022 Summer Reading Guide, The Cartographers by Peng Shepherd. In this book, there's a map that appears to be this cheap gas station map that would have sold hundreds of copies, and the main character gets pulled into the mystery of why is somebody trying to purchase every single copy of this one specific map.

Her father, I believe, was a cartographer, and she is... And when her father dies early in the book, and she's pulled in this mystery of, like, what is happening with this map? I loved the premise of the story. There are some magical elements regarding the map. I really liked that.

But unfortunately, there's a twist at the end... and this was the first time that I had this reading experience, but I've had it happen a few other books. But there's this twist that reveals some parent-child dynamics that I just can't get over. I just can't enjoy the rest of the book knowing that this one thing happened.

[00:23:49] And unfortunately, you don't ever know because it's a twist and it's a surprise. And so you don't really know that it's going to happen until towards the end. But I just, you know, can't have the same level of enjoyment once that twist has happened.

ANNE: Hmm. Okay. Now, readers, Ashley and I talked about this twist privately, and we are going to avoid it for her in the Summer Reading Guide selections. But Ashley, I'd love to go back to what drew you to that book in the first place. What were you hoping for when you picked it up? Do you remember? I understand I'm asking you about something that happened quite a while ago at this point.

ASHLEY: Well, I think that the mystery of it is, like what's happening and kind of a bit of an adventure. I also like a modern-day... Like, it was taking place kind of in current times, but also has this little element of magic. And if I'm remembering right also, I think she teams up with some people, the main character does, and of course, I love that. So it just seemed like it would be a really good fit for me from that description, that part of it.

[00:24:58] ANNE: Okay. It's helpful to hear what called out to you even as you found something that you maybe knew at the time you didn't like, or maybe that was a new discovery.

ASHLEY: It was a new discovery. That was the first time it happened to me.

ANNE: Okay. Has it changed how you read going forward, or does it just make you anxious?

ASHLEY: Well, usually what happens now, and it's only happened a couple other times after, but usually when I start to sense that that twist is about to happen, I just immediately start skimming and then I just finish the book as quick as I can. It usually happens so close to the end that I'll just finish the book, but I have a very grumpy attitude towards it after it's happened. But at least now I know why, and then I'll just kinda quickly read it so I know what happens.

[00:25:47] ANNE: I'm thinking aloud what this means for what you may enjoy reading this summer. And I'm just thinking about how different readers may view the responsibility of the author in what they reveal and what they withhold about characters and their stories. And I don't know, sometimes a big reveal feels dramatic and perfect, and sometimes it feels manipulative.

ASHLEY: Yes.

ANNE: I don't have a unified theory, but I'm going to be holding that idea in mind as we talk about your future reads.

ASHLEY: This might come up later in some of my recently read ones, but I will say that if I feel like a character has died purely to raise the drama of the situation and make it emotional rather than it being a natural part of the story, I get grumpy. And that is a very Kristin Hannah thing that I've noticed with her also. So there is a level of like I want to feel like the really sad events are critical to the story, a natural result of a character being real rather than just a "And now they're going to get killed so that you will feel very sad."

[00:27:05] ANNE: I will be holding that in my mind. Even as part of my mind is like, "But we don't know what's going to happen in life." Sometimes they... Yeah. But we do have control in novels, and yeah, hold- holding all that tension there. Ashley, what have you been reading lately?

ASHLEY: I recently read Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghy. That one has a lot of drama and mystery when the woman is washed up on shore on this very remote island, and yeah, there's a lot of mystery about why she's there and what has happened with this family of caretakers on the island. Again, great nature scenes that I just loved. At the end, there's this very dramatic moment that I have would just want to talk to everybody about. But I did feel like in the end that it made the book better to have that type of ending.

And then I'm also a very big fan of Rainbow Rowell. I just recently read Cherry Baby, and that was a very fun reading experience.

[00:28:12] And then I also read What We Can Know by Ian McEwan, which the first part of it takes place... it's a character who is 150, 200 years in the future, and he's researching this event that happens with what would be our modern day, and he's trying to figure out what happened based... And he's using all of their social media and text messages, all the digital imprints that the people involved have left. And then the second part is that person that he's been researching, their perspective of what happened for this mysterious event.

It was super intriguing. I really loved reading it in terms of seeing this really new dynamic, but I don't think it's for everybody because it is a very slow-paced. The characters by the end are not very lovable. So I'm glad I read it, but I don't know if I'm going to recommend it to a lot of other people.

[00:29:12] ANNE: Okay, that's interesting to hear. Ashley, what are you looking for in your reading life right now?

ASHLEY: Mostly it's all about setting up these fun reading experiences for the summer, because once I can close my classroom door and go into summer, I guess the way that I make it through all of the hard work that's going to happen for the last few weeks of school is having this set up, this expectation of all these fun things that I get to read and do over the summer. And so I'm really looking to have some books that I'm excited about reading, and also maybe setting up some kind of reading experiences or some kind of maybe retreat types of things that I can have organized and ready to go for the summer.

ANNE: Fun. Okay. Do you have any ideas? Because I know you said in your submission that you're looking for some how-to.

[00:30:12] ASHLEY: I'm not doing any big traveling this summer, and so I want to set up something where I'm just like, once a week I'm going to do this thing. But that's where I get fuzzy. But something that I'm getting either out of the house or meeting up with people and just reading in a different situation to make it a little bit more special, a little bit more of an escape from any chores and stuff that are around the house. But trying to set up these experiences over the summer, and I'm trying to navigate that. Like, what would that look like for me? What is a way that, one, that I won't make it so complicated that I never do it, because I tend to do this, where I really go crazy. I could do this and this and this, and then it's too much and I don't do it. So keeping it simple, but also unique to the summer.

ANNE: Okay, that sounds fun. I have ideas. First of all, if you are in or interested in the Modern Mrs Darcy Book Club, for years now, we've done a Readers’ Weekend in July. These are 100% online, and we only gather online, with the exception of 2020, which was a sad year for in-person gatherings, and we just went hog wild with our virtual events that summer.

[00:31:30] But we usually only gather online for three to five hours over the course of a weekend, and you can choose to come to none or all of them. It just depends. But we also share sample schedules for how you could spend that time as a reader, and break down itineraries with hour by hour what you could choose to do. And sometimes people like a little structure. That's a weekend, but in the winter/spring, we've also had a Readers’ Day where we've shared a smaller sample schedule like the one we just did in February.

So that's a resource for anybody who wants it. You can log in and download that Readers’ Day kit that we just had in February. We'll be sharing the reader's weekend one not too far from now. That's coming up in July.

I know some readers like to take reading vacations or reader's getaways, where they'll get themselves an Airbnb, or go to the water or the mountains, or they'll book themselves into the local hotel with a really great pool, whatever that is for you. But just from a low-key kind of way, because I love reading, and I have never once done something like that for a reader's weekend or reader's getaway.

[00:32:41] Actually, if I haven't said yet today, the theme for this year's Summer Reading Guide is Reading Retreat. And we had a lot of fun staging retreat vibes and settings in my home with food, drink are really important, I think, to that situation, a comfy chair, nice places to sit, nice scenery out the window, like that matters, too. But just when I want to take a little break or do indulgent daytime activities or weekend stuff, something I love to do. This is going to sound so silly, but I'll go to a coffee shop that I love, like a local coffee shop that I love, even if it's not the closest one to my house, with the intention of getting two drinks. I will read until my coffee is gone, and I'll read a bit, little bit longer. But then there's something about knowing I'm going to stay there for the second cup of coffee or I'm going to switch to tea.

And readers, I have a less tenuous relationship with caffeine than I used to, but I gotta go someplace that serves decaf if I'm going to do this and not going to switch to herbal tea. But just the idea when I get there that I know I'm settling in for a long time just feels so luxurious.

[00:33:57] Or you could set up a progressive kind of situation where you know you're going to go to one coffee shop and then another, or you're going to go to coffee and then the place with the great lunch counter with the pretty view, or you're going to go to the botanical garden with the pretty bench or the park that you like, or you're going to go read by the water. Maybe you can do that easily in Santa Barbara. And then you're going to go to the... You can see how I'm constantly thinking of food in this kind of situation. But then you're going to go get some kind of nourishment or refreshment. You could even do this in such a way where you read by yourself and then you meet a friend, or you meet a friend and then you go read by yourself. And if that friend's a reader, you could structure that to involve either a book discussion or reading together.

Is any of this stuff pinging for you?

[00:34:42] ASHLEY: For sure. I think location is super important, and again, like the food thing, when I was reading Cherry Baby by Rainbow Rowell, I found some Cherry Coke in the fridge and I just sat outside watering, and it was just beautiful. The sun was setting, and I was drinking this Cherry Coke while I was reading it. Reading in a different location in my house even made a difference and made it just so like that, in that case, was just like a 30-minute retreat. So I think being deliberate about that with different locations, like you are describing, is exactly what I'm craving. And then I'm just inviting friends as it works easily instead of making it into a big function.

I did host a mini readers’ retreat at my house last summer, and it was really fun. We had two hours of just kind of silent reading and then lunch together and then another two hours. And people just came as they could to the day. And I really loved that. I loved hosting that experience. But what I really want is to not be responsible for all of that. So going to a coffee place or a cafe is probably more likely to happen this summer.

[00:36:00] ANNE: I hear that. I love that you brought up the Cherry Coke in the backyard. And it sounds like that's impulsive. That's wonderful. And also, there's something that can be really inviting and magical about planning in advance and putting something on your calendar that says, "At 2:00, I go sit in my chair and I read." And even if it's the chair you like in your house, but please, get yourself a drink or something. Just a little something that says, like, "I am doing this on purpose," and just, you know, be nice to yourself in the way you like. Take your shoes off, even if it's only for 20 minutes, if that makes you happy. But just not reading until the phone rings, but knowing, like, "This is a little bit of time I'm carving out for myself."

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ANNE: Whether that means blocking out a certain amount of time on the calendar. And a certain amount of time could really be 20 minutes. That would still be a little bit of time. Three hours would also be really fun, but to know that that time is set aside, that's the plan, you're going to enjoy it.

ASHLEY: Exactly, yeah.

[00:37:02] ANNE: Yeah. Okay, I love that that's the way you're thinking going into your summer break.

ASHLEY: Yeah, I'm excited. That's good.

ANNE: Ashley, you're also looking for books.

ASHLEY: Yes, books.

ANNE: Let's talk about what we've got here. You love The River by Peter Heller in the original 2019 Summer Reading Guide, The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi by Shannon Chakraborty from the 2023 guide, and The God of the Woods by Liz Moore in the 2024 guide.

Not for you was The Cartographers by Peng Shepherd from 2022, but you did learn something important about your reading life about relational dynamics and then the tension between exposition and reveal and what it means for characters in the story. We're going to be keeping that in mind as we recommend books today.

And you love to read all kinds of stuff, sci-fi, fantasy, romance, realistic fiction, some family dramas, adventure, nonfiction, which is usually memoirs, and 75% with your eyes.

[00:38:13] ASHLEY: That's me.

ANNE: Ashley, I'm going to tell you what I'm thinking. And readers, these are all books from the Summer Reading Guide that I talked about at Summer Reading Guide Unboxing, which you can watch any time now that it's out and available. And I'm going to share what I did in Unboxing, mostly, plus a little bit more about the book generally, and also how it relates specifically to Ashley.

And the one I want to start with is by Travis Mulhauser, whose debut, Sweet Girl, was critically acclaimed. He wrote a book a couple years ago called The Trouble Up North, also critically acclaimed, but I don't believe either book landed in the hands of a ton of readers. And I'm hoping his new one finds a wider audience. It's called Fair Chase. It was just published on April 28th by Grand Central. Is this an author or work you're familiar with?

ASHLEY: It is not.

[00:38:59] ANNE: Okay. I'm not sad to hear that, and I'm happy to make the introduction. I think this is a really good fit for readers who enjoy Peter Heller in general, but because of the content here, especially The Last Ranger. And also it feels a fair amount like Charlotte McConaghy. And part of that is like the moody, atmospheric broodiness, but part of that is this is a book about, not only about, but this is a book about a wolf.

It's set in the wilds of Northern Michigan. The story begins when a gray wolf is spotted in the area. It's the first time in 100 years a wolf has been seen in this part of Michigan. And this wolf is an endangered species, so it's exciting, but also it's a wolf, and people are scared, and a lot of it is because they don't understand what it means to live in the area with wolves. And I did so much Googling that was highly unnecessary, but also a lot of fun for me to learn more about wolves as I was reading.

[00:40:01] But people are scared for their pets and their livestock and their small children. And then there's also a lot of property development going on in the area, and developers are scared for different reasons. They know if the feds find out that there is an endangered species nearby, then because of the laws, construction will cease, they'll lose a ton of money. It's really important to them economically that that not happen.

So what they do is they hire a poacher to take out the wolf before anyone official can verify its presence. But our real main character here is, or how about the one that everybody else revolves around, is this 14-year-old foster kid, and his name is Delos. And he's seen the wolf himself, he is not scared of it. He is an advocate... Does it sound silly to say a 14-year-old is an advocate for nature? But his heart really goes out to this wolf, and also he knows how to use the situation to his advantage.

[00:40:59] And I'm not quite sure how to tell you succinctly what's going on in this book, but Delos is a foster kid, he doesn't have a family, but he's been telling everyone for years that he is a blood relative of this certain notorious local family called the Sawbrooks. And everyone respects them and is also a little bit afraid of them.

They've been in the region for 100 years. They're moonshiners. Their shine is notorious and coveted. They are swaggering badasses. And Delos, in part to protect himself and in part because he wants to belong to something bigger than himself, has been telling everybody, "I'm a Sawbrook. I'm related through my dead mama. Don't mess with me because they will have my back."

[00:41:45] What he explains to the reader is, "Look, it's not that I'm a liar exactly. It's just something I wanted to be true so badly." But what Delos knows about the Sawbrooks is they care about wild things, and they will care enough to try and protect the wolf. And if he's the one who brings this news to their door, like, who brings them this noble and important mission, that maybe they'll respect what he's doing, and maybe they'll protect him too. Maybe they'll take him in. Like, maybe they'll make good on the claims he's been making for a long time that they are connected in some deep way.

This book is like this tense, atmospheric story where things are in motion and the stakes are high, but also the writing is... Like, I remember reading out loud to my husband and teenage son sitting on the couch, like, "Listen to what this character is saying her daddy told her about getting a new car once in your life." Just on a sentence level, it's so delightful sometimes. But issues it's exploring are small-town politics, nature versus development, family, truth, loyalty.

[00:42:56] This is a loose follow-up to his 2025 book called The Trouble Up North, which introduces the Sawbrook family. But this new one, Fair Chase, it stands alone just fine. You can totally start there. How does that sound?

ASHLEY: I am so excited about this already. I've been to Yellowstone a few times, and just love every time I'm there. And one of the experiences is learning about the wolves, and maybe trying to catch a glimpse of the wolves. And on top of that, the science teacher side of me just loves the ecosystem-wolf dynamic, and what that means. Even from your description, I'm already growing attached to this kid and the wolf, so that just seems perfect for me.

ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. I have a book for you about an English teacher and a science teacher, if you're okay with it.

ASHLEY: Perfect, yes.

[00:43:54] ANNE: It's the new Laurie Frankel. It's called Enormous Wings. Do you know it? Are you familiar with it?

ASHLEY: No. No, I'm not.

ANNE: Okay. This is just out. I think it came out May 5th. And I was just in Nashville. I served as Laurie's conversation partner for her Nashville book tour stop, so I got to hear... I get to relay a little bit of her personal thoughts about this. That was a delight. She's still on tour, if anybody gets to go see her or has the opportunity, take it. It was a lot of fun. But I really enjoy her writing.

And what Laurie Frankel does is she writes these situations that are technically realistic, but just a little bit larger than life. It feels like reality, but with the volume and the plausibility factor just dialed way up. Or maybe it's the implausibility factor. Like, this is realistic, but ooh.

[00:44:47] And this is by far her most fanciful work yet, because it features the pregnancy of a 77-year-old woman. And I thought it was so interesting that the book actually does come up with an explanation that sounded like, eh, I mean, as far as it goes, that's a really good explanation to me for how this happened.

One of the things I asked her was, like, "Laurie, I was surprised there was a reason," and she's like, "I knew people were going to want to know. I had to throw them something."

But this is about a 77-year-old woman who becomes pregnant. Our protagonist is an English teacher, and I mean, she is an English teacher to her bones. The dialogue is so fun. She's correcting people's grammar constantly in a way that is somehow endearing and not obnoxious. She's quoting the books she taught. She has a deep and abiding love for Hamlet.

[00:45:38] The title is based on a Gabriel García Márquez short story called Enormous Wings. Her name is Pepper Mills, so puns galore, but she thinks puns are never, ever funny, and there are jokes about that, too. But after she gets into a minor fender bender, her adult children freak out and impress upon her that it is time for her to move into an assisted living facility.

She does not want to do that, mostly because, well, she doesn't want to give up her autonomy, but also her ex-husband is already a resident there, and she's like, "I lived with him once. I don't want to do it again. 300 other roommates is not enough to dilute the Roger effect."

But to placate her three grown children, she moves in and is like, "You know what? This isn't so bad." I mean, the food is atrocious, but she makes friends, she falls in love with a science teacher, so there's lots of science-y jokes. And then despite having gone through menopause a quarter century before, she falls pregnant, and her doctor is like, "No, really, like, you are pregnant. This is not a false anything. You are pregnant."

[00:46:43] But everybody's thinking, like, First of all, this can't be possible, but it also can't be safe for a 77-year-old woman to successfully carry a pregnancy. And for a long time, everyone assumes she will miscarry, but that doesn't happen. And the book kind of gives a reason to those who want a reason for what's going on here. But you know what I didn't tell you is Pepper lives in Texas, and it turns out she does not have any medical options except to wait and see what happens next.

So this book is not science fiction, but it's almost science fiction in the way it takes you out of this world, out of the reality that we know, and into a reality where daughters are mothering their own mothers as they become mothers. It just feels a little topsy-turvy, upside down, in a way that feels really mentally expansive. I don't know how else to describe it except say read it, and I hope you'll get what I mean.

[00:47:43] But like sci-fi, by upending the rules of reality, it helps you see our reality more clearly. The best I can describe the sense of humor here, which is pervasive but also sometimes real dark, is that it feels a lot like Annie Hartnett's The Road to Tender Hearts, if you enjoyed that.

ASHLEY: Yes.

ANNE: And last year's book that I loved, These Heathens by Mia McKenzie, that would also make a really good comp here. But this book is about aging and risk, and it is so heart-rendingly poignant as it contemplates what love and life look like through changing seasons. And because it's set in an assisted living facility where many patients are moving from the very basic low-touch assisted living to the nursing facility, there's lots of discussions about pain and cancer and the normal and natural and painful and not as painful ways to be sick and grow ill and die.

[00:48:46] The little band of friends that forms among Pepper and her boyfriend and their tight little group of friends in the nursing home community is just gorgeous. It's so delightful to read about. And also, Pepper is extremely close to her 15-year-old granddaughter, Lola, who brings a whole different dimension to the story. I loved each one of the three adult children.

But something I really want you to know about this book is even though these people are family, and even though it makes sense that Pepper finds a group of friends almost immediately in her assisted living facility, the way that grandmother and granddaughter team up to fix a big problem later in the book, they end up taking a road trip. So the book feels... it takes on a different dimension then. And the way the residents in this assisted living facility come together and enjoy their life... the way you talked about how you love adventures and you love any story where an unlikely team of people come together to get stuff done, I think this book really will speak to you on those levels.

[00:49:57] I'm sure I'm leaving out something very important. I'm going to need to email you later. But I feel like this is almost an adventure story, but it's not the kind of adventure we typically think of. How's this sounding to you?

ASHLEY: Oh, I'm super intrigued. I just love some good witty dialogue, and especially if I know going into it that it's meant to be a little larger than life, and maybe something a little bizarre is going to happen, then when I'm mentally prepared for that, I just can sink right into it.

ANNE: I'm glad to hear that. Okay, I'm really torn but I'm leaning toward more English teachers, and I like that this comes out July 7th, gives you something to look forward to. Have you read any Daniel Mason? He has a new book coming out called Country People.

ASHLEY: I don't think so.

[00:50:46] ANNE: Okay. You would probably know him from North Woods, which was a novel and interconnected short stories that we talked about on the podcast. This new one has a different tone, and this is a romp about teachers. Mason says that his intention was to write a serious novel about Chekhov, you know, like serious great American fiction, but instead he ended up with this.

It is a sharply comic novel about the absurdities of city people packing up their lives and moving to the country. They think they're embarking on this grand, romantic, outdoorsy adventure, but all those romantic notions about what's going to happen and what country life is like run smack into reality.

If you don't know Daniel Mason, I would say reading this, imagine the most satirical Amor Towles. I think that puts you in the realm of what this tone is like. But this just feels like a romp. It also feels like a prolonged coming-of-age and just a serious midlife reckoning story.

[00:51:58] This is also a good book for book people because it's about two literary nerds. They're married. Oh, they're from California. And they're leaving California life behind. Not suggesting you do the same, but you know their point of origin, and they are traveling cross-country to Vermont for the wife's visiting professorship. She's an esteemed scholar. She has this cushy gig in Vermont for a year at this little private liberal arts school. They are so excited to embark on a year-long adventure with their two kids. One's in third grade, one's in junior high. They both think they know what they're getting into. They have no idea.

Kate is obsessed with Milton and Paradise Lost. That's her area of expertise. Her husband, Miles, has been writing his dissertation for something like 14 years. He has tried and failed to write 11 dissertations, which actually sounds like another book in the Summer Reading Guide, just in this one specific area. And his continuing quest to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up now that he's 40-something is pervasive in the book.

[00:53:04] And this story is just packed with these almost realistic absurdities with the small-town scandals. And there are plenty of them. There are these conspiracy theories, like the husband Miles, gets sucked into this cult, I think, obsessed with the dream of a hollow Earth that is very active in his community.

They have a family dog that comes with them on the trip who has a turbocharged sense of smell. This dog was bred for truffle hunting, and that ends up playing very directly into the story. We get the dog's perspective sometimes about what he smells and what he needs to find.

There is a local ski instructor so handsome he's known for scrambling the senses of anyone in his radius as he's teaching your kids how to ski down the slopes. There's lots of transcripts of this local show called The Miscellaneous Minute that are more than a little absurd woven through the story.

[00:54:04] But Miles and Kate... Well, Kate gets into a little bit of work difficulties, but Miles gets into all kinds of trouble when he's not sure what to do with himself, and the way that plays out is just, it's fun. I mean, even as the content is the stuff of our daily lives, like after-school activities with the kids, a visit to the emergency room, a school play where scandalous things happen, a happy dog dirtying the sofa of the professor's home that you're renting for the year. This is really just a big-hearted story of reinvention, rediscovery, and also serious midlife reckoning, and an adventure into this world you think you know and find out you, bless your heart, you had no idea. How's that sound?

ASHLEY: Oh, this is hitting a lot of the right things. I have plenty of my own dog stories, and I love when there's a good character as a dog, and you get to see... Because you just know, like people who know dogs know when it's accurate that that's probably exactly what the dog is thinking. So that kind of tips it above the just slightly interesting into very interesting and maybe perfect for me.

[00:55:13] ANNE: That sounds great. Ashley, I have more ideas that we'll save for after we hit stop on the recording, but I hope these are sounding good. Now, there's a whole guide coming your way, so more to choose from. But of the books we talked about today, Fair Chase by Travis Mulhauser, Enormous Wings by Laurie Frankel, and Country People by Daniel Mason, what's sounding good? What do you think you might pick up next?

ASHLEY: I think for sure Fair Chase is going to be sitting on my table waiting for me to come home for my first day of summer, because that just sounds so perfect. But all three of these are going to be in my list to read over the summer.

ANNE: Well, I'm happy to hear it. Thank you so much for bringing your summer reading planning to us, and for talking books with me today.

ASHLEY: Oh, thank you. This was so much fun.

[00:56:07] ANNE: Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ashley, and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.

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[00:56:52] Thanks to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by executive producer Will Bogel, Media production specialist Holly Wielkoszewski, social media manager and editor Leigh Kramer, community coordinator Brigid Misselhorn, community manager Shannan Malone, and our whole team at What Should I Read Next? and Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ. Plus the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production.

Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.