How many book clubs is too many book clubs?

[00:00:00] ANNE BOGEL: Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

Readers, today I'm sharing our final episode in our Mid-summer Team Rewind series, where we are featuring what, in some instances, was the very first conversation I had with readers who then went on to become people I talk with almost every day, because now they are members of our team.

It's true you can listen to the What Should I Read Next? archives any time. It's also true that I don't typically go back in time and listen to episodes from 2016 or 2017 or 2021, and I have so appreciated the opportunity to do so.

[00:01:08] I loved these episodes when I aired the first time, but now I'm listening in a whole new way because I know these readers in a different way. Whether you are listening for the first time or after several years absence, I hope you enjoy.

What I hope we always share with you is great conversations with people who love books and reading as much as you do. Check out the show notes for links to what our team is up to now because yes, you're hearing these people as podcast guests, but they also participate in our communities and are writing stuff and making stuff and recording stuff that you get to enjoy all the time in various ways.

Also, over on Patreon, we are hosting follow-up episodes to see where are they now in their reading life. And I'm asking fun questions like, what was it like to re-listen after a long hiatus? Also, if you were to come on the show today, what three books you love and one book you don't would you tell me about so I can make recommendations for what you to read next? Join us there. It's at Patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext if you're not already a member of that community.

[00:02:07] Podcasting from a business standpoint, and not just us, everybody, is really wonky right now and we are always, but especially now, grateful to our patrons for making it financially possible for us to keep doing what we do. We really appreciate your support there. Those bonus episodes are just one way we say thank you.

I just dropped a fresh bonus episode over on Patreon on Friday that I think many of you will be very interested in. It's all about book advances and royalties. It was inspired by me receiving a royalty statement in the mail last month on my first three books and kind of explaining it to my daughter, and she was like, "Wah, I understand nothing." And I thought, "Mm, you know, what I think I'm hearing is this would make a really great Patreon bonus.

So I walk you through my royalty statement in this episode, but also talk about how book advances work. How is that amount determined? How much do authors typically get? And what does that mean? And what does that mean for royalties? And how much are royalty payments? And when do they come? How does it all work?

[00:03:04] It's part of our Industry Insight series over on Patreon, which is dedicated to exploring questions like, how does it all work, with the underlying idea that knowledge is really empowering. And when you know how different aspects of the publishing industry function, you can make more informed choices as a reader. It's a good one. I hope you listen. Patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext.

On that note, I just read a really thoughtful comment from our patron, Ashley, and she said, I'm quoting, "One thing that held me back from contributing to Patreon for years was thinking that I would have to download another app and keep up with extra things there, which just seemed overwhelming." One more thing, she didn't want to do it. But Ashley says, "When I realized all the bonus episodes would auto-populate in my podcast listening app," for her, that's Apple, "I was all in. I head out for so long, and I wish I would have realized I didn't have to download anything additional."

Ashley, thank you for pointing that out to us and for pointing out that other readers may want to know exactly that.

[00:04:02] If you're not already a member of that community, do that at any time. Patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext.

Now for today's team conversation, I'm sharing my first podcast conversation with Brigid Misselhorn, who I met thanks to the magic of our What Should I Read Next? guest submission form, and who now works on our team as our Modern Mrs. Darcy book club community administrator.

This is so fitting, because as you'll hear in today's episode, Brigid is totally addicted to book clubs. When her story begins, as you will hear, she looked around the readerly community and thought, "Gosh, it would be nice to have a book club." And at the moment in time when we recorded this conversation, she was participating in seven.

Brigid loves participating in all of the book clubs and buddy reads for memorable conversation and a structured reading life. As a naturally slow reader, Brigid has a bunch of tips for finishing all those book club picks on time. We also discussed the origins of her book club addiction, the benefits of audiobooks in her reading life, and how she balances personal reading with book club reading.

[00:05:04] From graphic novels to Gothic mysteries, today's titles are a lot of fun. Let's get to it.

Brigid, welcome to the show.

BRIGID MISSELHORN: Hi, Anne. Thank you so much for having me. I am over the moon to talk books with you today.

ANNE: Well, it's a pleasure. I can't wait to dig in. Brigid, tell us a little bit about your reading life.

BRIGID: So, I have been a bookworm pretty much for as long as I can remember. My very first job growing up was as a children's librarian page. I would put away all the books and I... One of my jobs was literally to read the shelves to make sure everything was in order in the Dewey Decimal System. I would just spend half the time looking at books and adding books to my to-be-read even before I knew what a TBR was.

I've always been an escapist reader. I love books that just take me away or just let me see through someone else's eyes for a little bit. I just find a lot of entertainment and value in reading. And it's probably my favorite hobby.

[00:06:09] For many years, I would kind of read on my own in a vacuum. I'd read books and I wasn't tracking them. Shortly after I met my husband about 10 years ago, he suggested using Goodreads to me. So, I started putting things on my actual TBR and stuff that I'd read. So I was able to start tracking my reading. It was kind of a whole new world for me. I'd never done that before.

I'd always really wanted to be in a book club, but never had been asked. And I'm kind of like a go-getter or, you know, I end up reading projects a lot of times, but this was something that I was hoping, you know, I wouldn't have to do myself.

I had a friend shortly after we had our first daughter, she said, "Would you want to be in a book club with me? I have some other mom friends and we meet and we read two books a month." And I said to her... I was like Corduroy in the children's book. I was like, "This is what I've always wanted. I've always wanted someone to ask me to join one."

[00:07:07] Then flash forward to today, about six years later, and I'm currently in six book clubs and buddy reads. So, it's become a bit of an addiction, but a healthy one, and something that brings so much joy to my reading life. Being able to talk books with friends, whether it's a book that I loved or a book that wasn't for me, makes such a difference in my reading life.

I love being able to get different takes on books from fellow book clubbers. I always walk away at the end with something that I didn't notice, whether or not it's exciting or new, or it's something that, wait, I didn't like that either. So, I think it's made my reading life so much more enjoyable and so much more memorable to be in all these book clubs and buddy reads with friends.

ANNE: When you filled out your submission at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/guest, and we saw the words "book club addict", we thought, Oh, so many readers are going to relate to this, or so many readers are going to get the nudge they need to do that thing they've been meaning to do for so long, which is find a book club.

[00:08:17] I'd love to hear more about the impact joining these book clubs has had on your reading life.

BRIGID: Oh, goodness. Well, I would say the first thing would be the amount I read, for sure. I went from reading maybe 30 books a year to closer to 50. In this past year, especially with everything, I read over 100 books, which was a first for me.

ANNE: You describe yourself as a slow reader.

BRIGID: Yes.

ANNE: Tell me more about that.

BRIGID: I am a naturally slow reader, especially on the page. I think it has to do with the fact that my comprehension... I'm really taking in almost every detail. But it is not unheard of for me to take a month to read a book.

For example, I'm currently reading Ready Player Two. I absolutely loved Ready Player One. I am savoring it for all it's worth. It's not a book club pick, so I only pick it up here and there. And I'm fine with that. Like, I don't mind being a slow reader.

[00:09:14] But to make sure that I make my reads for book clubs in time, I always have it in my Google Calendar. Okay, make sure you've read this book by this date. But a lot of times it works out fine. I am able to catch snippets of time to read on audio as well.

So what I normally do is have the audiobook. And I'll have it either on page or on my e-reader. So if I'm not listening to it while doing the dishes or walking or exercising or, you know, trying to cook dinner, then I'm reading it when I do have a chance to sit down and read. So that helps me to finish books a lot quicker.

And listening to audio on a little bit faster speed. I can't do like two times the speed. That's way too fast. But, you know, 1.4, 1.5 usually works for me. I think that's actually faster than I can read on a page.

ANNE: Oh, that's interesting.

[00:10:13] BRIGID: Now, if it's like a fast-paced, for example, like Mexican Gothic, which was like a dip into horror for me. I don't normally read super scary stuff. But those last hundred pages I read on the hardback and I just flew through those. So it definitely depends on the book. But I would say I finish about four to eight books a month.

ANNE: Brigid, that's good to hear. The reason that I asked and that we wanted to hear a little more about that is that we do hear from so many readers who say they are slow readers. And they just assume when we talk to guests on What Should I Read Next?, we're talking about so many books they love that they must read differently than our slow readers at home.

It doesn't make a difference how fast you read. And there's not really a lot you can do to read faster. But, I mean, you can have a vibrant reading life no matter how fast or slow you're reading those books. As long as you are reading those books.

BRIGID: Definitely. I make it a priority. Like Wednesday nights are book night at our house. So that makes a difference as well, how much reading you can get in.

[00:11:13] ANNE: What's book night?

BRIGID: Well, it used to be book and beer. My husband and I would sit down, have a beer and each have our reading, whatever we were reading at the time. But lately it's been more like book and tea as we get a little bit older. But, yeah, on Wednesday nights we don't turn the TV on unless we put on some sort of ambient video and we just sit with a beverage and we read.

ANNE: That sounds delightful.

BRIGID: It's lovely. I look forward to it each week.

ANNE: I'd love to hear more about your book club addiction. Take me down the road that went from joining your first book club at your friend's invitation to being a part of a half dozen. Or maybe it's more.

BRIGID: Yeah, it's actually a bit more right now. It's about seven. But, yeah, I'm happy to take you down that road. The first one was The Novel Bunch. That is a group of my local mom friends. We talk books... and we actually discuss two books a month. It's been something that has just grown with me over the years and I have some really wonderful friends.

[00:12:15] We were able to switch it to Zoom lately. So that's been great. Now we do one book at each twice a month. So that one is my original book club that I joined.

Then from there, actually, I read a blog post on Modern Mrs. Darcy about romance books, and it was a genre that I had not picked up before. That was just that little push I needed to kind of get more interested in them. A local bookstore was having a romance bookstore event back last February on Valentine's Day and I went to it and the bookseller, Deborah, who was running it, was so wonderful.

One of the authors they had was Well Met by Jen DeLuca. Jen DeLuca was there. She said, "Well, that's the book we're reading in our book club this month. You should join us." And so I did. I didn't know anyone from the group, but because Jen DeLuca lived a couple hours away from us, we were going to be doing it online.

[00:13:15] I was able to join this group online, read along with them. It was great. We spoke to the author. And so I started joining that book club each month. And Deborah has grown her book club so amazing over these past 10 months. Whereas we do also a romance book club and then a bonus book club. So that one has two books a month as well.

Then almost weekly author chats. She's a longtime bookseller, so she has lots of authors, friends, and buddies come and talk to us. So that's been really wonderful as well. These are all people who live in mostly my area, but I've never actually got to meet in person. That kind of got me thinking then, Okay, well, with everything going on and so many virtual events at our fingertips, maybe there's another book club I'd want to join.

So after following on Instagram and probably from your podcast as well, I ended up joining Bookmark's North Carolina Romance Book Club with one of your past guests, Beth.

[00:14:19] ANNE: Yes, I love them.

BRIGID: She is wonderful. Her and Katie run this wonderful romance book club. So I actually do two romance book clubs a month now from going to have never read romance books and then getting that little push I needed to really falling in love with that genre. And it's different types of books.

Then from there, I'm obviously a member of the Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club. So another two books a month. And that has been really fun. That is a new-to-me book club in the past like four months. A lot of times their books I've either read already or had on my TBR. Your picks are so good. So it's always so exciting to get to chat about those and then see those author events come up. I, in fact, got a six-month membership for Christmas from my sister and brother-in-law to continue on as well. So that's fun.

[00:15:13] ANNE: Oh, that is fun. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

BRIGID: From there I've joined on Instagram through Bookstagram, people I follow there, a couple of buddy reads over the years. Those have been really unique because they're slightly different than a book club, meaning that we talk about the book in segments.

It'll be scheduled, you know, we're reading this book and we'll talk about the first hundred pages on this date and then the next hundred pages. And that is unique because as much as I love reading an entire book and then getting together with everyone at the end to discuss what we thought, it's great to read it in real-time with people. You know, have these, okay, what's going to happen? What do you think this is...? You know, what do you think about this? And it also helps me catch things I might have missed.

So I do a short story buddy read for that. And then I also have done a number of classic buddy reads, including The Count of Monte Cristo last year, which was great because I don't think I would have ever picked that up.

ANNE: Which I've been meaning to read forever.

[00:16:12] BRIGID: It gave me two and it was fabulous. And without this like, okay, bye Friday, have these pages done or these chapters done, I couldn't put it down though. I accidentally started a buddy read of my own, which I didn't mean to do.

I had wanted to read Rebecca, I saw that they were redoing it for Netflix. I posted on my Instagram, "Hey, does anyone want to read with me?" Some friends joined in and we loved it. Before I know it, you know, the end of our buddy read comes up at the end of the month and they're all like, "Well, what are we reading next?" So I said, "I don't know. Let's read another mystery by a woman."

So the next one was Death on the Nile by Agatha Christie. And it's become... we call ourselves Murder She Read. We pick one mystery Gothic thriller that is written by a female author and we read it per month. So that has been awesome.

I just run that through group message on Instagram. We just read The Dry by Jane Harper, and that was really awesome. You know, we stopped halfway and then we all make our guesses on what's going to happen.

[00:17:19] Obviously, there's people who can't help but read ahead, but they know just not to spoil it for those who haven't. Some of the fellow readers I met through Modern Mrs. Darcy's book club actually have joined in on that Murder She Read buddy group too.

ANNE: That is wonderful. Also, that is a lot of books. So having all these books that you are committed, I mean, I hope happily committed to on a regular basis, it sounds like that would have a big impact on how you choose what to read next and what you're able to read. Tell me about the mix of titles in your reading life right now.

BRIGID: I am the type of person who always has kind of an audiobook, a hardback, an eBook, and then also a graphic novel going. And I've found that what happens as far as the book clubs is sometimes there's some serendipity where this month both Deborah's book club and Bookmark's North Carolina's Romance Book Club both picked the same book. So I'm only reading one book for them. Or it happens to be a book I've already read, which always is wonderful too. And I maybe just revisit.

[00:18:24] But since I am committed to reading all these books per month or trying my best, sometimes I don't make it. Or if it's a pick that is just outside what I'm interested in or is maybe too gory, I will just skip it. That's the beauty of not running a lot of these book clubs myself — I can pick and choose. But for the most part, I usually try to read all the books that are chosen. That does leave less time for myself.

So I find myself gravitating to books that are either shorter, like a graphic novel or something I can read more quickly, or something that I just can't wait to get my hands on and I'm willing to drop everything else and really focus on that book and maybe read it in a couple of days, which is usually unheard of for me with my slower reading.

ANNE: Well, I'm excited to see what we can find to fit that. It's not exactly in order. You're not being bossy, Brigid. But to fill that need. How's that?

[00:19:25] BRIGID: Yeah. I would love a book that I don't really feel like I have to discuss with everyone else. Something that is just for me. Not that I ever feel pressured for any of these book clubs. It truly is a joy to me and it's something that I wouldn't change in the world. But I do like finding books that are just my own.

For example, the three books that we're going to talk about, when my book club, Novel Bunch, asked, "Well, what books did you pick?" and I told them, they were like, "Brigid, you've never recommended any of those books to us. Come on. Why are you holding out?" So it was kind of funny that I realized, Okay, these are three non-book club picks and yet they're the ones that are three that I absolutely love.

ANNE: They're books that belong to you alone.

BRIGID: Yes.

ANNE: Well, until today. All right, Brigid, you know how this works. We're going to talk about three books you love, one book you don't, and what you've been reading lately, and I'll recommend three titles you should read next.

[00:20:29] BRIGID: Oh, that sounds great. I cannot wait.

ANNE: Well, I love the way you pick these. Tell me about your first selection.

BRIGID: My first selection is one that just kind of blew me away when I first picked it up. And that's Tuesday Mooney Talks to Ghosts by Kate Racculia. This book has pretty much everything I love. It's a super fun puzzle, kind of mystery book, and it's got pop culture and awesome characters, fast-paced, and has like just the teeniest touch.... Well, maybe not teeniest, but touch of the like macabre. Like I find myself recommending it to people all the time because it is lovely. I would say it's Willy Wonka meets Indiana Jones.

ANNE: That's a fun description.

BRIGID: Yeah. Like set in a Westing Game, kind of. One of the wonderful things is the sense of place in this book. It is set in Boston around fall and Halloween time. There's a little bit of sale in Massachusetts also. You really get this feel of Boston.

[00:21:34] The characters too are just so great. Tuesday Mooney herself is one of those characters that has just stuck with me. I feel like so many books that I read, the main characters are flawed and, you know, the anti-hero types. Whereas, yes, she has her flaws, but I couldn't help but just root for her and want to be her. She's like, if you could cast her in a movie like Phoebe Waller-Bridge, you know, just this like awesome, always wearing black, walking Google of a person, you know.

She crosses paths with this eccentric billionaire and his name is literally Vincent Pryce, but with a Y. So it's kind of perfect, you know. And then the real Vincent Price also comes into play. So it's just a really fun book and I can't say enough good stuff about it.

ANNE: That sounds really good. That's been on my radar for forever because I really enjoyed Bellweather Rhapsody, but I've never read Tuesday Mooney.

BRIGID: I've never read Bellweather Rhapsody.

ANNE: Or the Westing Game, if we're confessing things here. Been meaning to read it for... not quite a million years.

[00:22:37] BRIGID: It's something that I picked up recently in the past maybe year, year and a half. A friend had always listed it as one of her favorites growing up and I read it. I mean, there's probably a few things that are a little bit, in today's day and age, off-color, but it really holds up as a fun puzzle, you know, kind of that Knives Out feel or The Inheritance Games, a billionaire, millionaire, eccentric person leaving their will in this puzzle mystery way. It's really fun. I think you would love it, Anne.

ANNE: I was even ecstatic to find a copy in a little free library. Not that I can't just walk into the bookstore and buy it, but sometimes it feels like the universe is saying, Hey Anne, here's that book you've been thinking about.

Brigid, tell us about book two.

BRIGID: So my next book is Nimona by Noelle Stevenson. I wanted to choose a graphic novel to talk about and far and away, this is my favorite graphic novel I have read. It actually helped me really fall in love with the genre. Now I find myself trying to find something like it and never being able to find a book to the same feel that I got when reading Nimona.

[00:23:49] It's fast-paced. It's fun. It's a mashup too. This was Noelle Stevenson's webcomic that was turned into a graphic novel and compiled. They just have a way of writing that is able to mash up this medieval-type adventure, but yet it's set in this kind of futuristic sci-fi fantasy world. So while it's nights and they're having jousts, there's also video screens and laser guns and banks and all these other things that you would not see in normally in a medieval times adventure.

It's about a hilarious little shapeshifter named Nimona. Nimona is on point with her little jabs and jokes. She decides to go work for this, finger quotes, villain, the evil villain, Lord Blackheart. It is just one of those things where I picked it up and I couldn't put it down. You just want to know. It's like fun adventure.

Then there's a little bit of great romance going on, some enemies, lovers, and just a little bit of sad, it's touching, but it's so heartfelt and it has a hopefulness to it as well. I love the backstory that's told within it. I think Nimona is just in a league of its own when it comes to graphic novels.

[00:25:24] Noelle Stevenson is also known as the lead runner for the She-Ra show on Netflix.

ANNE: Oh, I didn't know that.

BRIGID: They ran that show, which I think has had its final season at this point. They ran that show and it has that same kind of quirky humor, but also tinge of heartbreak and redemption. So a great pairing for that.

ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. Brigid, what did you choose for your final favorite?

BRIGID: For my final, I chose Carry On by Rainbow Rowell. Rainbow Rowell is one of those auto-read authors for me. This one has my whole heart. It is a wonderful, wonderful... Just a little backstory. Rainbow Rowell wrote a book called Fangirl. Within it, the main character, Kath, writes fan fiction about two characters, Simon Snow and Baz, from a series of fantasy books that she has read and loved.

[00:26:26] After Fangirl's popularity, Rainbow Rowell wrote Carry On as an actual Simon Snow and Baz book. So it's very meta. It's a book written about a book within a book, fan fiction within a book, and yet it is so wonderful of its own regards.

It's a fantasy book. It's set at a magical campus. Love those. Watford School. And it takes place during the final year of Simon Snow, who is, of course, a chosen one. He has a vampire nemesis/roommate named Baz, and they are fighting this evil creature known as the Insidious Humdrum.

Again, it has a lot of things that I love. Pop culture references. The magic they use are sayings like, these aren't the droids you're looking for, would be one of their magical spells. They have power because of normals, you know, knowing, those statements. Just wonderful little nursery rhymes as their magical spells. I just love it.

[00:27:35] It's got mystery, magic, ghosts, and humor. It's a fast piece from multiple perspectives. So each chapter kind of bounces from different characters throughout the book. It is part of a trilogy, and the third one will be coming out later this year. But Carry On by Rainbow Rowell just has my whole heart. I love that book.

ANNE: I like it. Now Brigid, tell me about a book that was not for you.

BRIGID: One book that I didn't like... I don't normally finish books that I dislike, but one that I didn't like and felt wholly ambivalent about was Normal People by Sally Rooney. I mean, I really don't have much to say about it other than I finished it, and I didn't love it, and I didn't hate it.

ANNE: Was this book club or just for you?

BRIGID: This was a friend's recommendation, and it came available on my Kindle, so I picked it up. She wanted to read it together, kind of just the two of us, and I did. I finished it because of that, probably. But honestly, I probably would have put it down otherwise.

[00:28:41] ANNE: Now this is contemporary, realistic literary fiction, which is different than any of the books you've brought up so far. Coincidence, not a coincidence? Because I haven't read Sally Rooney, but I also know the tone of this is different than the books you've mentioned so far as well.

BRIGID: I think there's a connection there. But there are some contemporary that I do enjoy. I don't know if Poet X would be something that would be considered that since it's in verse. But I don't mind if something's contemporary or realist. But this one, I just... the characters didn't pull me. I think it just wasn't right for me.

ANNE: I think I've also heard the word "bleak" applied to this one a lot.

BRIGID: Yeah. I'm not crazy about bleak stuff. I wouldn't say that I hate it, but I do like a little hope at the end, even if the ending isn't all tied in a bow. Only things that I really, really stay away from would be a horror, gore, or serial killer.

ANNE: Duly noted.

BRIGID: I do like thrillers, but I don't like a ton of bloody stuff.

[00:29:44] ANNE: Okay, we can work with that, Brigid.

BRIGID: I know this is not probably popular, but this is a real spicy take, and I'm almost nervous to say. But since I listen to so many audiobooks, I have to say I do not like audiobooks read by Julia Whelan, narrated by her. And that is many audiobooks nowadays. It seems almost like every book you see is read by her. I have to say it's probably a compliment to her because after listening to Educated, I can no longer listen to her narrate a book without thinking of Educated.

ANNE: Oh, that's interesting.

BRIGID: When children are in peril and it's because of a parent's lack of active abuse, I have a difficulty enjoying a book like that. I will read them, they seem to be quite popular in book clubs, but since listening to Educated, whenever I hear her narrate something like Beach Read, I just can't get into it.

[00:30:48] Now, if she's with somebody else, like in Daisy Jones & The Six, where she's the narrator and there's other narrators as well, then it's okay. But honestly, if I see her name, I will force myself to read that book only on page or on my Kindle. I just can't do any more books narrated by her.

ANNE: That's so interesting. Okay. She was too much a cha... I mean, there is no such thing, I think, as being too much the character as an audiobook reader, but that has imprinted on your brain and it has changed the way you approach your audiobooks.

BRIGID: Without a doubt, I cannot get the images from that book that she so expertly narrated out of my head.

ANNE: She's narrated a lot of big titles recently and a lot of big ones coming up.

BRIGID: So many.

ANNE: The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue.

BRIGID: I just picked that up from the library because I saw it was her.

ANNE: Yeah, she has Julie Buxbaum's new one, Kristin Hannah's new one. So no children in peril on the page or by association?

[00:31:49] BRIGID: Yeah. Unless it's a stranger things vibe where they are able to defend themselves in some way, then I'm good for it.

ANNE: Okay. We can work with that. Brigid, what have you been reading lately?

BRIGID: Oh goodness, so for my various... I mentioned earlier that I am reading North and South on a buddy read with at Stephanie Reads, the classic novel by Elizabeth Gaskell. I also just finished How to Catch a Queen by Alyssa Cole for Deborah's Romance Book Club in Bookmark's, North Carolina. And I enjoyed that, but it was a little slow-paced for me. I would say How to Catch a Queen, I would have liked a little more action in that one. And it takes a while to get its speed.

Then I'm also reading for my own The House in the Cerulean Sea by T.J. Klune.

ANNE: Interesting you should mention that.

BRIGID: I saw it everywhere. I have to say I have not fallen in love with it the way that I thought I would but I'm enjoying it and I want to kind of wait to see where it goes. I feel like it is really in my wheelhouse so I don't know what's quite missing yet but I am enjoying it so far.

[00:33:04] I do love the humor and the situation and the setting and the unconventional romance that's budding. So I do enjoy it.

I'm also reading Ready Player Two, like I mentioned, taking my time with that one, finding the sequel so far to live up to my hopes, because that doesn't always happen right. Lastly, for my Novel Bunch club, I'm listening to The Girl with the Louding Voice by Abi Daré.

ANNE: Brigid, what do you want to be different in your reading life?

BRIGID: I would start with what I want more of. I would really love more unique and fun graphic novels. Those are things that I can pick up in between book club reads. So I definitely think that would be something I'd like more of, stuff that I could just read and enjoy and love in a short amount of time.

Then I think different would be a book that could be just my own. Something that I've read, like I said with my three favorites, books that really weren't book club picks that I am able to fall in love with and not feel like I have to have a discussion about. And, you know, being able to squeeze those in between my book club picks is important to me

[00:34:22] ANNE: Well, we will see what we can do. Brigid, the books you loved were Tuesday Mooney Talks to Ghosts by Kate Racculia, Nimona by Noelle Stevenson, and Carry On by Rainbow Rowell. Not for you is Normal People by Sally Rooney. And we talked about how maybe "bleak" is not a descriptor you're looking for. And then I'm going to tread carefully and thinking about any kind of realistic contemporary literary fiction.

Currently, you're reading a whole lot of books, largely for book club, and we're looking for graphic novels that are fun and then books that are just for you.

BRIGID: Yeah, I'd love like maybe one graphic novel recommendation, maybe even something that if other people were interested in reading, we could do as a little buddy read on Instagram, and then some books that are just for me.

ANNE: Okay, let's see what we can do. Based on the things you said you enjoyed, have you read Mariko Tamaki? I'm thinking of Laura Dean Keeps Breaking Up With Me.

BRIGID: I have read that one. And I did love that one.

ANNE: Okay, I'm on the right track.

[00:35:23] BRIGID: You are on the right track. I did love that book. I especially love the illustrations in that one. She kind of uses a limited palette. This is something we didn't really talk about when I said I liked graphic novels, but I did find that one really beautiful to read as well with the images and the color palette.

ANNE: Okay. Since you've already read Laura Dean and I've already got Mariko Tamaki in my head, and Noelle Stevenson, have you read the Lumberjanes series?

BRIGID: I have.

ANNE: All of them?

BRIGID: No, I have read the completed edition of the first three volumes. That one is so perfect as well because it has a little bit of magical and what's going on, fantasy. I do love the friendship between the characters. The setting of a camp is so fun. I worked at summer camps growing up. That was one of my jobs, teaching art at summer camps. So I loved that. But yeah, I have read Lumberjanes.

[00:36:29] ANNE: You know they're like 19 now, right?

BRIGID: Yeah. I need to keep going.

ANNE: And I think you've read the other one I was thinking would be perfect for you, which is Check, Please!.

BRIGID: I'm in the middle of the second one right now. That one is cute.

ANNE: Okay. In that case, I'm thinking about a different direction, which at first I was thinking this might be perfect for you because it's so discussable and you could read it in book club. I'm thinking of the adult graphic memoir, Good Talk by Mira Jacob.

BRIGID: Oh my gosh, this is one that I have on my TBR but have not read yet.

ANNE: So maybe the time is right and maybe the time is here.

BRIGID: Yes.

ANNE: This is her follow-up to her first book, A Sleepwalker's Guide to Dancing, which actually I have been meaning to read for a very long time and have not yet.

BRIGID: I've never even heard of that one either.

ANNE: Okay, well, if you like this, there's a nice little trail you could go down afterwards. Good Talk came out last year. Although early in the pandemic, Mira Jacob wrote this really beautiful graphic essay about her family leaving New York City during the early period of the pandemic. Right after I was in New York, actually, which was a little chilling to read.

[00:37:35] But she wrote a graphic essay showing her family debating, do we stay, do we go? They decide to leave. She illustrates their trip out of New York, driving across the country to stay with family that's in the American Southwest.

But the thing I loved about that essay is so many people see that it's illustrated and they think, Oh, I don't read that genre. And it really introduced a lot of people to her work, which is great. So look that up if you want to peek before the book. But we know that you love graphic novels and graphic memoirs, Brigid. So this is a memoir and conversations is how she describes it. And you said that you liked a spare style?

BRIGID: I do.

ANNE: The style of this book is really interesting. There's photographic backgrounds. The illustrations are of the characters, but they're framed in white, almost like they're paper dolls or paper cutouts. So it's really interesting and unusual. She made the things she wanted to make that didn't exist before because it really served the story and her art. I know appreciating the genre that that could be something that really appeals to you.

[00:38:38] But this is a graphic memoir, and it's about race and about family. It unfolds through, as the title promises, a series of conversations. And some are very, very serious, which actually this book was inspired by a piece that she wrote for BuzzFeed that went bananas on the internet. It was called 37 Difficult Questions From My Mixed-Race Son.

Jacob is of Southeast Asian descent, and her husband is white and Jewish, so they have very different backgrounds. So they have a son, the one you would see in the New York essay of them fleeing New York City during the pandemic. And she wrote it in response to him asking when he was age six, are there people who hate brown boys like me?

So there's some very serious conversations, but there's also some that are just silly or heartwarming or even just kind of bizarre because it's in conversations. But something that really works with this book is the kinds of conversations she portrays. Like you see conversations with her son and conversations in her family. But also there's conversations with friends that let her kind of reflect on other conversations that have taken place and just view it through a slightly different lens.

[00:39:49] I like the way one book reviewer put it. I think it was Kirkus that said, "This is a show-stopping memoir about race in America. It's beautifully done." This is the kind of book that people would read and discuss in a book club. It would make a wonderful book club selection, but it could also be just yours. How does that sound?

BRIGID: That sounds perfect. You had me at the conversations range from race to the mundane to, you know, quirky stuff. That sounds wonderful. And especially being able to read about her relationship with her son sounds like it's like a collage that you're looking at. I really like the sounds of that one.

ANNE: Well, that was Good Talk: A Memoir in Conversations by Mira Jacob. Okay, next, you mentioned that you were reading The House in the Cerulean Sea by T.J. Klune. And I said, "Oh, that's interesting." And it's because when you were describing your experience reading Rainbow Rowell books and also describing Nimona, I thought, you know, there's a T.J. Klune book that could be good for you. But it's not The Cerulean Sea, it's The Extraordinaries, which came out later. Is this one you're familiar with?

[00:40:57] BRIGID: That is so funny. Yeah, I've heard of it, but again, I have not read it yet. I've heard that it has a humor element and... definitely intrigued.

ANNE: Well, this is like Carry On, but it puts a superhero spin on it. It's also very much like The Incredibles, you know, the Pixar movie.

BRIGID: Okay.

ANNE: This is about Nick Bell, and he is not an extraordinary. But something that a lot of people don't know is that he has this alter ego. He is the most popular fan fiction writer in The Extraordinaries fandom, which is a big deal in Nova City where he lives. Okay, Brigid, let me think. What do I want you to know about this book?

BRIGID: Yeah, without spoilers, right?

ANNE: Always. This is a YA novel that reads like a YA novel. Listeners, one of my favorite descriptions of YA novels ever still comes from Preston Yancey, one of our, I think, first 10 What Should I Read Next? guests, where he just says, like, They're big, and they're bold, and the emotions are huge, and it's all like saturated color. That would describe the tone of this book.

[00:41:58] So Nick, he has an unrequited crush. His mom died in sad circumstances a few years back. He's dealing with ADHD and he's suddenly having friend troubles with his longtime best friend. There's a cute boy at school that's also causing him a little bit of woe, which is where it's important to jump in and say that T.J. Klune is a queer author who really writes queer characters. He really believes it's important. He says now more than ever to have accurate, positive queer representation in stories. And that is absolutely here.

Something else that I really noted is that in this book, Nick's father is a police officer. So there's a scene where a police officer handles something, and it's not Nick's dad, but a police officer handles something differently than T.J. Klune said he would have chosen were he writing in 2020 than he did a couple of years ago when he actually wrote the book.

There's a piece online called something like a note about The Extraordinaries where he reflects on his writing process, what he would have changed, what he intends to do differently in the future, and just how current events made him think about his work and how it reads to people.

[00:43:03] For anybody who enjoys the behind-the-scenes of the writing process, and who asks like, what would writers take back if they're writing a certain book today, that's a really interesting piece. This did just come out in July of 2020.

I have to tell you, I listened to the audiobook, which is not narrated by Julia Whelan. This is the first book I listened to narrated by Michael Leslie, and I did really enjoy the book in that format. Honestly, I think the only reason I picked that up is I did really enjoy The House in the Cerulean Sea.

I see what you're saying. I hope as you persevere, you'll get your head around what's happening and who the characters are, and you'll care a little bit. But this one is more action-oriented, and I think it may be faster to grab you.

I think the only reason I picked this up is that I had never read T.J. Klune before The House in the Cerulean Sea, and I really enjoyed it. And I thought, Oh, here's a new audiobook on Libra.fm. I guess I'll give it a try. Even though it's not a typical genre I read, like superhero stories, it's something I was willing to try, but not a go-to of mine by any means. But it was a delightful departure. It's not quite such a departure for you, but I think it might be a delight. How does that sound?

[00:44:09] BRIGID: It does sound delightful. I, especially when you brought up the fact that there was a piece about what he would have changed. I love the idea of, you know, this superhero and struggles. It kind of almost sounds like, like John Hughes meets superhero fanfic. It really does sound up my alley.

I do like things that are great on audio and are going to make me laugh. You know, I get sucked into the adventure as well. I cannot wait to pick that one up.

ANNE: Well, I am happy to hear it. That was The Extraordinaries by T.J. Klune. It's the first in a planned trilogy. The next book is set to come out in summer 2021.

BRIGID: Oh, that's great to know. I also really do love being able to read more books by queer authors about queer characters. I find that some of my favorite books are those type of romances and situations.

[00:45:02] ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. Finally, this is the one book I feel confident you haven't read yet because it's not out yet.

BRIGID: Oh, yay.

ANNE: You mentioned that you returned or finally read Rebecca recently?

BRIGID: Oh, I just finally read it for the first time and I absolutely loved it. It was a classic that I had been meaning to read for years and for some reason was kind of daunted by. And then I picked it up and it felt so fresh, but yet also really got me sucked into the setting and the time and the place and characters. So, yeah, I loved that one.

ANNE: You mentioned you'd read And Then There Were None for one of your book clubs.

BRIGID: Well, sure. Agatha Christie. Any sort of puzzle like that.

ANNE: Thriller writer J.T. Ellison has a new book coming out in March that has serious Rebecca vibes and also And Then There Were None. It seems like there's a whole slew of books where terrible things happen at parties and gorgeous isolated locations. This is one of them. And I think you might be here for it.

[00:46:09] BRIGID: I am. I am. Especially if it's like Clue, the movie, or Hunting Party.

ANNE: All right. In that case, let me tell you more. This book is called Her Dark Lies. It opens right as the wedding of the year is about to take place at this gorgeous villa off the Italian coast. And you know it's a very exclusive guest list because there's a Nashville artist. Her name is Claire. She's a painter. So she sees things through an artistic lens.

She is marrying Jack. He is the son of a huge computer company's family. They are loaded. They have staff galore and security and notoriety. There's lots of secrecy about what she can and can't tell about the family because she's about to be welcomed into the inner circle. They're all really excited about this wedding.

But as the book begins, nothing is going right. They're approaching the island to get there for the first time to check in and enjoy it, but it turns out that skeletal remains have been found that day, and they think they know who they belong to, and it can't be a good sign. I mean, it can't be a good omen that they're showing up now.

[00:47:13] All the seriously sinister vibes are reminding Claire that she knows very little about her husband to be his first wife, who he was married to briefly, who died on the last day of their honeymoon 10 years before. She doesn't know the whole story there, but she feels like maybe stuff has been swept under the rug. Not like in a legal sense, but just that nobody wants to talk about it. And that's kind of creepy.

But as you get further into the story, and you meet more of the cast of characters, and you see more of what's unfolding, you realize that there are lots of characters with something to hide. Then people start dying in mysterious ways. And when you add that to the mysterious death that happened 10 years ago, and the just oppressive atmosphere, like, Maybe we need to get off this island as soon as possible. This is not going well. And lots of twists and turns. I think this could be fun for you.

BRIGID: Oh my gosh, definitely. As a former art teacher and I have my degree in art, my BFA in art, I always love when a character is a painter or has that artistic feel to it. And as soon as you said like his first wife and that she died on the last day of their honeymoon, I'm hooked. I'm hooked. I want to know what's happening on this island for sure. I want to try to figure it out.

[00:48:29] ANNE: Oh, that makes me so happy. I hope you love it. That is Her Dark Lies by J.T. Ellison.

BRIGID: Oh my gosh, that sounds really great. Right on the nose with that recommendation.

ANNE: All right, Brigid, we talked about some good stuff today.

BRIGID: We sure did. So many wonderful books.

ANNE: We had Good Talk: A Memoir in Conversation by Mira Jacob. The Extraordinaries, the superhero story from TJ Klune, and Her Dark Lies, the thriller from JT Ellison. Of those books, what do you think you'll read next?

BRIGID: Honestly, Anne, I'll probably pick up all three. I'll probably listen to The Extraordinaries, get my hands on a copy of the graphic novel, Good Talk, and then I will get the hardcover or the eBook for Her Dark Lies.

ANNE: Well, I am happy to hear it. And I can't wait to hear what you think. Brigid, thanks so much for talking books with me today.

BRIGID: You're welcome. It was my pleasure. Such an honor.

[00:49:29] ANNE: Hey Readers! I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Brigid. If you learned you read similarly to Brigid today, we would love to see your recommendations for her in our comment section. Find Brigid on Instagram and Goodreads.

We have those links and the full list of titles we talked about today, plus a roundup of other places you'll find our team members around here. All that is over at WhatShouldIReadNextPodcast.com.

If you'd like to hear more from Brigid and other team members, a great place to do that is at our Patreon page, where we have a collection of team bonus episodes, including this month's follow-up conversations with Leigh, Donna, Shannan, and Brigid.

I loved getting to check in with each of them and hear more about what their reading life is like today. Even though we talk books all the time, I was curious to hear what titles they'd pick today for their three favorites.

Patreon is full of great bonuses like these, plus special events like our seasonal book previews and live unboxing events. Our patrons are a huge part of what lets us do the work we do here at What Should I Read Next? and we are grateful for your support.

[00:50:28] If you'd like to help support the show with a monthly or annual pledge and access our library of bonus book talk, find out more at patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext.

Thanks to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by Will Bogel, Holly Wielkoszewski, and Studio D Podcast Production. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.